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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 16:40:40 GMT -5
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 11, 2014 17:20:31 GMT -5
Since Mom didn't leave a link to any article with regard to these comments, here's one... Mr Bundy hasn't paid his federal grazing taxes since 1993... this protest is mostly a right-wing Tea Party action... “Mr. Bundy is breaking the law, and he has been breaking the law for 20 years,” she said. “He owes the taxpayers of the United States over $1 million.”www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/bundy-vs-blm-interest-cattle-dispute-widens |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 17:21:47 GMT -5
I posted a link along with my comments.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 11, 2014 17:35:52 GMT -5
Since Mom didn't leave a link to any article with regard to these comments, here's one... Mr Bundy hasn't paid his federal grazing taxes since 1993... this protest is mostly a right-wing Tea Party action... “Mr. Bundy is breaking the law, and he has been breaking the law for 20 years,” she said. “He owes the taxpayers of the United States over $1 million.”www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/bundy-vs-blm-interest-cattle-dispute-widensSo is there a link that 20 years ago he was a member of the dreaded Tea Party? He just has a martyr complex, wants a Ruby Ridge, or Waco situation and frankly it looks like the Feds who are overstepping their bounds will give it to him. Why isn't this a state issue?  So the feds are spending millions to get rid of cattle what don't seem to be effecting the tortoise population. The state should just arrest him, or whatever needs doing for the laws broken. You know they could get rid of the cattle for free if they just offered them to anyone who would take them away. |
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 11, 2014 20:07:16 GMT -5
I posted a link along with my comments. Your link was hidden and did not highlight for me... sorry I missed it... no harm done I hope... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 20:07:19 GMT -5
So this is really about a tortoise habitat. Kill the cattle save the turtle. Our government sucks.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 11, 2014 20:18:04 GMT -5
The article I posed pointed out who most of the organizers and protests are... the issue doesn't seem to be so much the tortoise as it is the taxes... there are only three grazing permits issued on federal land in Southern Nevada... the grazing fees, as my article points out, have not been paid since 1993... pretty desolate in the Overton area... I'm surprised anything can live there...
Maybe they want to turn it into another Brusett... I dunno...
"State lawmakers from Arizona to Washington are headed for Nevada to rally alongside the Bundy family and its supporters. Most of them are tea party Republicans or Libertarians associated with a patriot group known as the Oath Keepers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 20:23:47 GMT -5
Since Mom didn't leave a link to any article with regard to these comments, here's one... Mr Bundy hasn't paid his federal grazing taxes since 1993... this protest is mostly a right-wing Tea Party action... “Mr. Bundy is breaking the law, and he has been breaking the law for 20 years,” she said. “He owes the taxpayers of the United States over $1 million.”www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/bundy-vs-blm-interest-cattle-dispute-widensSo is there a link that 20 years ago he was a member of the dreaded Tea Party? He just has a martyr complex, wants a Ruby Ridge, or Waco situation and frankly it looks like the Feds who are overstepping their bounds will give it to him. Why isn't this a state issue? So the feds are spending millions to get rid of cattle what don't seem to be effecting the tortoise population. The state should just arrest him, or whatever needs doing for the laws broken. You know they could get rid of the cattle for free if they just offered them to anyone who would take them away. This is nothing but a power grab from the federal government. Orwell was right. |
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Post by Cuchulain on Apr 11, 2014 20:54:47 GMT -5
From the same people who denied access to the WWII Memorial to an Honor Flight in October of last year.
It's OUR land! We the People!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 20:57:54 GMT -5
From the same people who denied access to the WWII Memorial to an Honor Flight in October of last year. It's OUR land! We the People! That being said why would anyone be denied access to such a sight? |
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Post by kemmer on Apr 11, 2014 21:53:14 GMT -5
Hard to judge. If you graze cattle on federal land, you do have to pay for it. Apparently, these ranchers haven't.
Much of the complaint seems to be about the methods of herding the animals-- and whether the feds are injuring them with their methods.
Corralling protesters in "free speech areas" is always problematic. So is bringing in heavy armament for use against protesters. [Shades of the Cossacks, but then, now that we have "czars" on the payroll, that's not surprising. Was it Nixon or Reagan who gave us our first "czar"? I can't recall.]
If it comes down to evicting cattle for non-payment of rent, I side with the feds. Grazing land is a resource that has to be managed, and price is the best way to do that. Absent restrictions, we'd run into a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Everyone would graze as many cows as possible, until the grass is gone. (See: Kenya.)
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Post by Cuchulain on Apr 11, 2014 22:15:41 GMT -5
Hard to judge. If you graze cattle on federal land, you do have to pay for it. Apparently, these ranchers haven't. Much of the complaint seems to be about the methods of herding the animals-- and whether the feds are injuring them with their methods. Corralling protesters in "free speech areas" is always problematic. So is bringing in heavy armament for use against protesters. [Shades of the Cossacks, but then, now that we have "czars" on the payroll, that's not surprising. Was it Nixon or Reagan who gave us our first "czar"? I can't recall.] If it comes down to evicting cattle for non-payment of rent, I side with the feds. Grazing land is a resource that has to be managed, and price is the best way to do that. Absent restrictions, we'd run into a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Everyone would graze as many cows as possible, until the grass is gone. (See: Kenya.) Why do we have to pay for grazing rights on land that is otherwise idle? How do the cattle "damage" or intefere with others' use of the land? Could it be that someone has a private agenda for the use of that "public" land? How does it happen that the great preponderance of land in the State of Nevada is "owned" by the U.S. Government? Of course, except for the casinos and whorehouses. Well, I guess I mis-speak - they're licensed by the State. Is there any private property in Nevada? Aside from Wayne Newton's estate? |
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 11, 2014 22:35:49 GMT -5
Hard to judge. If you graze cattle on federal land, you do have to pay for it. Apparently, these ranchers haven't. Much of the complaint seems to be about the methods of herding the animals-- and whether the feds are injuring them with their methods. Corralling protesters in "free speech areas" is always problematic. So is bringing in heavy armament for use against protesters. [Shades of the Cossacks, but then, now that we have "czars" on the payroll, that's not surprising. Was it Nixon or Reagan who gave us our first "czar"? I can't recall.] If it comes down to evicting cattle for non-payment of rent, I side with the feds. Grazing land is a resource that has to be managed, and price is the best way to do that. Absent restrictions, we'd run into a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Everyone would graze as many cows as possible, until the grass is gone. (See: Kenya.) Why do we have to pay for grazing rights on land that is otherwise idle? How do the cattle "damage" or intefere with others' use of the land? Could it be that someone has a private agenda for the use of that "public" land? How does it happen that the great preponderance of land in the State of Nevada is "owned" by the U.S. Government? Of course, except for the casinos and whorehouses. Well, I guess I mis-speak - they're licensed by the State. Is there any private property in Nevada? Aside from Wayne Newton's estate? Have you ever been to the Overton area?... I have... hard to believe anyone would be in a dispute over anything outside the city... desolate for sure... but the land is owned and managed by the feds... and they have a right to charge a fee for it's use to be used for management of the land... |
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 11, 2014 22:37:05 GMT -5
Hard to judge. If you graze cattle on federal land, you do have to pay for it. Apparently, these ranchers haven't. Much of the complaint seems to be about the methods of herding the animals-- and whether the feds are injuring them with their methods. Corralling protesters in "free speech areas" is always problematic. So is bringing in heavy armament for use against protesters. [Shades of the Cossacks, but then, now that we have "czars" on the payroll, that's not surprising. Was it Nixon or Reagan who gave us our first "czar"? I can't recall.] If it comes down to evicting cattle for non-payment of rent, I side with the feds. Grazing land is a resource that has to be managed, and price is the best way to do that. Absent restrictions, we'd run into a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Everyone would graze as many cows as possible, until the grass is gone. (See: Kenya.) Good comments, Kemmer... I agree... |
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Post by rocketwolf on Apr 11, 2014 22:40:23 GMT -5
It is interesting that the US has many laws about mistreating animals
and yet they are rounding up cattle by chasing very young calves with helicopters.
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Post by kemmer on Apr 11, 2014 23:11:09 GMT -5
Hard to judge. If you graze cattle on federal land, you do have to pay for it. Apparently, these ranchers haven't. Much of the complaint seems to be about the methods of herding the animals-- and whether the feds are injuring them with their methods. Corralling protesters in "free speech areas" is always problematic. So is bringing in heavy armament for use against protesters. [Shades of the Cossacks, but then, now that we have "czars" on the payroll, that's not surprising. Was it Nixon or Reagan who gave us our first "czar"? I can't recall.] If it comes down to evicting cattle for non-payment of rent, I side with the feds. Grazing land is a resource that has to be managed, and price is the best way to do that. Absent restrictions, we'd run into a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Everyone would graze as many cows as possible, until the grass is gone. (See: Kenya.) Why do we have to pay for grazing rights on land that is otherwise idle? How do the cattle "damage" or intefere with others' use of the land? Could it be that someone has a private agenda for the use of that "public" land? How does it happen that the great preponderance of land in the State of Nevada is "owned" by the U.S. Government? Of course, except for the casinos and whorehouses. Well, I guess I mis-speak - they're licensed by the State. Is there any private property in Nevada? Aside from Wayne Newton's estate? well, I think the feds should auction off all that land. Same for the forest land it owns. Not sure anyone wanted most of Nevada-- not exactly homestead-quality farmland, like Oklahoma. We pay for grazing rights because we're renting pasture. Given that we know how many acres are needed to support each cow without grazing the land down to bare dirt, it's a way to keep cattlemen from running too many "for free" without regard for next year's grass. If you had 50 acres of pasture to rent you would (1) rent to the person offering the best price, and (2) make sure the renter didn't put 10,000 cows on it to chew the grass down to the roots, and then move on. (Or worse, 10,000 sheep.) There's always a problem with "common land." People who use it don't own it, and if they don't over-harvest, over-fish, etc, someone else will. That's the "tragedy of the commons." Being a good husbandman puts you at a competitive disadvantage to the most wasteful. (See: the Great Banks and codfish-- and haddock, halibut... pretty much everything except whitefish and hake.) Make something free-- even use of federal grassland-- and you'll find it is quickly overused and then GONE. [I'm betting the feds aren't charging enough, but then, Americans love cheap beef, so "we get what we want." I'm not looking for that land to be sold anytime soon... unless it's to someone "connected", like ADM. *sigh*) |
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Post by kemmer on Apr 11, 2014 23:17:06 GMT -5
It is interesting that the US has many laws about mistreating animals and yet they are rounding up cattle by chasing very young calves with helicopters. Yeah, that does seem to be part of the issue. It's possible they have a bunch of "city boy" helicopter pilots whose experience of cows is mostly on a bun at McDonald's. I don't think there's much animal husbandry taught in military helicopter school. |
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 12, 2014 6:55:58 GMT -5
Only the feds can manage to spend 3million rounding up cattle. I also wonder why it has taken 20 years to go after him for non payment of fees.
It would be nice if the officials who chose to stampede the cattle through tortoise country got fined or thrown in jail for every tortoise that was crushed in the rush.
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Post by rocketwolf on Apr 12, 2014 7:13:53 GMT -5
Only the feds can manage to spend 3million rounding up cattle. I also wonder why it has taken 20 years to go after him for non payment of fees.It would be nice if the officials who chose to stampede the cattle through tortoise country got fined or thrown in jail for every tortoise that was crushed in the rush. Some bureaucrat finally decided to do his job.
There are 2 in the wrong here.
The government for not collecting them all along (someone was derelict in his job) The rancher knew he owed the money (he is criminal)
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Post by rentedmule on Apr 12, 2014 7:20:27 GMT -5
These stories, about the problems of the Commons, are frequent. According to The Economist the "Kings Land" is a great loss to the citizens. The revenues never turn a "profit", the cost to government is great, there is NO tax revenue to the communities or State, and "lost opportunities" to those of us who might use that land are lost, in favor of marginal "poor John" ranchers who muddle on with inefficient business models which cheat our society of better options. Thanks to the Tea Pot Dome Scandal, the Navy is no longer managing western lands! But the federal Empire is vast and still thwarting Americans from producing appropriate wealth from their own lands. (Nevada is 90% "owned" by the federal government)
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 12, 2014 7:27:34 GMT -5
Only the feds can manage to spend 3million rounding up cattle. I also wonder why it has taken 20 years to go after him for non payment of fees.It would be nice if the officials who chose to stampede the cattle through tortoise country got fined or thrown in jail for every tortoise that was crushed in the rush. Some bureaucrat finally decided to do his job.
There are 2 in the wrong here.
The government for not collecting them all along (someone was derelict in his job) The rancher knew he owed the money (he is criminal)
The rancher is a criminal in a couple of ways. 1. The non payment of grazing fees. 2. When they changed the number of cattle he could run because of the tortoises he exceeded that number. I feel for him because he was hit by the federal bus over tortoises, but he has had 20 years to make his exit, seems he should have seen this coming and planned accordingly. |
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 12, 2014 7:30:14 GMT -5
These stories, about the problems of the Commons, are frequent. According to The Economist the "Kings Land" is a great loss to the citizens. The revenues never turn a "profit", the cost to government is great, there is NO tax revenue to the communities or State, and "lost opportunities" to those of us who might use that land are lost, in favor of marginal "poor John" ranchers who muddle on with inefficient business models which cheat our society of better options. Thanks to the Tea Pot Dome Scandal, the Navy is no longer managing western lands! But the federal Empire is vast and still thwarting Americans from producing appropriate wealth from their own lands. (Nevada is 90% "owned" by the federal government) Arizona is also mostly federal. The states, and private individuals should own the land. Just think of all the state revenue that is lost because the feds are not paying property taxes. |
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Post by rentedmule on Apr 12, 2014 8:18:44 GMT -5
These stories, about the problems of the Commons, are frequent. According to The Economist the "Kings Land" is a great loss to the citizens. The revenues never turn a "profit", the cost to government is great, there is NO tax revenue to the communities or State, and "lost opportunities" to those of us who might use that land are lost, in favor of marginal "poor John" ranchers who muddle on with inefficient business models which cheat our society of better options. Thanks to the Tea Pot Dome Scandal, the Navy is no longer managing western lands! But the federal Empire is vast and still thwarting Americans from producing appropriate wealth from their own lands. (Nevada is 90% "owned" by the federal government) Arizona is also mostly federal. The states, and private individuals should own the land. Just think of all the state revenue that is lost because the feds are not paying property taxes. True. We initially followed the thinking of folk such as Thomas Paine and used wealth (private property) as a basis for funding local governments. Amongst the original states there was no federal assets to thwart the citizens. But... empire building and bureaucracy prevailed in the western lands. Witness Alaska! (our good friend Moses enjoys life up there secure in the tributes extracted from the honest producers who must beg for the "privilege" to toil on the Kings Land. |
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Post by redleg on Apr 12, 2014 10:22:40 GMT -5
Since Mom didn't leave a link to any article with regard to these comments, here's one... Mr Bundy hasn't paid his federal grazing taxes since 1993... this protest is mostly a right-wing Tea Party action... “Mr. Bundy is breaking the law, and he has been breaking the law for 20 years,” she said. “He owes the taxpayers of the United States over $1 million.”www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/bundy-vs-blm-interest-cattle-dispute-widensSorry, there is no "law". Since the Feds are prohibited from "owning" any land, except for "forts, magazines, docks, and for government buildings", unless they are planning on making NV a shipyard, they have no rights to that land. And, according to the news last night, that is state land anyway, not "Federal". |
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Post by redleg on Apr 12, 2014 10:24:01 GMT -5
So this is really about a tortoise habitat. Kill the cattle save the turtle. Our government sucks. Especially since the Feds have been killing those tortoises in LV. |
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