|
|
Post by harryreid on Dec 8, 2014 18:43:20 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Dec 8, 2014 19:49:08 GMT -5
You're condemning someone for speaking the truth, but not those who engaged in the torture? That's an interesting perspective.
Bush had an opportunity to prevent this from ever happening. If you think about it, you'll know what he could have done to prevent this.
All fallout from this report - ALL OF IT - rests on Bush's shoulders.
|
|
|
|
Post by harryreid on Dec 8, 2014 20:24:57 GMT -5
You're condemning someone for speaking the truth, but not those who engaged in the torture? That's an interesting perspective. Bush had an opportunity to prevent this from ever happening. If you think about it, you'll know what he could have done to prevent this. All fallout from this report - ALL OF IT - rests on Bush's shoulders. You know, the old military adage that I was taught no matter the situation was " whatever it takes for achieving the mission'. These "interrogators" where charged with finding out what they can no matter how it's done. These people kill infidels for no other reason. As Churchill put it...... "I don't care how you do it; you must sink the Bismarck!". Taken literally if she was filled to the gunnels with German refugee children, sink it. ALL is fair in love and war and if it were YOUR neck hanging over a stump with a sword bearing down even you would have been most grateful if this could have been avoided by any means. One must act like an animal to defeat animals. Ever have abdominal surgery? Imagine a finger or two fishing around where your appendix was without the morphine drip.  I think I missed my calling.  |
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Dec 8, 2014 20:31:09 GMT -5
I believe torture is wrong. I have no use for the Muslim faith, regarding it as having ruined two once promising civilizations (the Arabs and the Persians) and of being without redeeming values. But I do not believe in descending to their level.
|
|
|
|
Post by segram99 on Dec 8, 2014 20:31:45 GMT -5
War is hell!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by harryreid on Dec 8, 2014 20:42:06 GMT -5
I believe torture is wrong. I have no use for the Muslim faith, regarding it as having ruined two once promising civilizations (the Arabs and the Persians) and of being without redeeming values. But I do not believe in descending to their level. Again, whatever it takes. it's kept you "safe' since 17 hundred something at least. Do you think one can reason with a allah akbar when the color blue is in conflict with mohammeds silly manifesto they hold so dear and literal? |
|
|
|
Post by redleg on Dec 9, 2014 9:55:15 GMT -5
I believe torture is wrong. I have no use for the Muslim faith, regarding it as having ruined two once promising civilizations (the Arabs and the Persians) and of being without redeeming values. But I do not believe in descending to their level. So you are for cultural and national suicide, just to prevent "descending to their level"? You are engaging in moral relativism. You conflate actions without context. We didn't start this war, but we are in it, and we either win it, or lose it. And losing it means losing our country, our morals, and our lives. You claim to be an atheist. Will you still be atheist when you risk having your head removed, with a dull knife, for not converting? |
|
|
|
Post by vosa on Dec 9, 2014 15:35:30 GMT -5
I believe torture is wrong. I have no use for the Muslim faith, regarding it as having ruined two once promising civilizations (the Arabs and the Persians) and of being without redeeming values. But I do not believe in descending to their level.We're not. Most of the terrorists who fell into the CIA's hands are alive although maybe a little the worse for wear. Almost all of the innocent folks who fell into the terrorist's hands are dead. And those that are still alive won't be for much longer. "We declare our right on this earth to be a man, to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary."
—Malcolm X, 1965 |
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Dec 9, 2014 16:27:47 GMT -5
Will you still be atheist when you risk having your head removed, with a dull knife, for not converting? I don't know. But you claim to be a Christian. Did Jesus Christ advocate torture? If so, when and where did he do that? |
|
|
|
Post by Ranger John on Dec 9, 2014 17:12:37 GMT -5
You're condemning someone for speaking the truth, but not those who engaged in the torture? That's an interesting perspective. Bush had an opportunity to prevent this from ever happening. If you think about it, you'll know what he could have done to prevent this. All fallout from this report - ALL OF IT - rests on Bush's shoulders. Except they're ABSOLUTELY NOT telling the truth. They're as full of crap as Susan Rice explaining Benghazi. Your first clue is that the report is strictly partisan. Your second clue is that the authors interviewed exactly NO ONE in a position to know what happened. Your third clue will come when Obama does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to address the contents of the report, thus revealing that releasing it to the public served NO good-governmental purpose whatsoever. This will cause intelligent people to realize that the entire purpose of the report was to let Democrats embarrass George Bush some more while they still can. Most of the actual fallout from this report will come when the intelligence community realizes that it can NEVER trust any Democrat Senator. Any lives lost or people injured from this report - ALL OF THEM - rest squarely on Feinstein's shoulders. The decision to air the nation's dirty laundry when everyone potentially responsible for it is out of office, during a time when NOTHING will change in the intelligence community (except fomenting distrust of Democrats) because of it.... it serves no purpose at all, other than to try to embarrass Bush some more. And Democrats howling about how we didn't get any useful information from the enhanced interrogation techniques... well, they've been doing that for almost 10 years now. Nothing has changed, and they're still full of crap. |
|
|
|
Post by redleg on Dec 9, 2014 20:02:49 GMT -5
Will you still be atheist when you risk having your head removed, with a dull knife, for not converting? I don't know. But you claim to be a Christian. Did Jesus Christ advocate torture? If so, when and where did he do that? He did not. However, He did advocate standing up for Christian values, which at that time were not couched as "Christian". Nor did he advocate suicide, even by omission. |
|
|
|
Post by redleg on Dec 9, 2014 20:04:36 GMT -5
You're condemning someone for speaking the truth, but not those who engaged in the torture? That's an interesting perspective. Bush had an opportunity to prevent this from ever happening. If you think about it, you'll know what he could have done to prevent this. All fallout from this report - ALL OF IT - rests on Bush's shoulders. Yes, it does. And it proves that Bush was interested in protecting the country, while The Puppet is interested in destroying it. |
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Dec 9, 2014 22:43:05 GMT -5
I don't know. But you claim to be a Christian. Did Jesus Christ advocate torture? If so, when and where did he do that? He did not. However, He did advocate standing up for Christian values, which at that time were not couched as "Christian". Nor did he advocate suicide, even by omission. That's some twisted logic. Call Alberto Gonzales, the man who beat the law until it screamed for mercy in his quest to make torture legal for his boss. I'm sure whatever law firm he works for now can use a mind capable of that kind of logic. None of you apparently see the danger in letting the government torture people. How once it decides it is done with external enemies it begins searching for them at home. This is how totalitarian states start - with the best of intentions, and people willing to give them permission. The fact that it was a Republican administration that thought torture was a good idea is almost sufficient reason by itself why that party should cease to exist. |
|
|
|
Post by highmc2 on Dec 10, 2014 0:05:50 GMT -5
He did not. However, He did advocate standing up for Christian values, which at that time were not couched as "Christian". Nor did he advocate suicide, even by omission. That's some twisted logic. Call Alberto Gonzales, the man who beat the law until it screamed for mercy in his quest to make torture legal for his boss. I'm sure whatever law firm he works for now can use a mind capable of that kind of logic. None of you apparently see the danger in letting the government torture people. How once it decides it is done with external enemies it begins searching for them at home. This is how totalitarian states start - with the best of intentions, and people willing to give them permission. The fact that it was a Republican administration that thought torture was a good idea is almost sufficient reason by itself why that party should cease to exist. Party identity and groupthink outweighing common sense and history. It happens on all sides, but it seems more prevalent by older folks that are so ingrained in their thought process that it becomes emotional, and therefore irrational. |
|
|
|
Post by aponderer on Dec 10, 2014 6:07:33 GMT -5
Wait a minute... Didn't this so-called "torture" actually stop before Obama took office? What are the time periods cited in the report?
|
|
|
|
Post by rentedmule on Dec 10, 2014 7:00:11 GMT -5
He did not. However, He did advocate standing up for Christian values, which at that time were not couched as "Christian". Nor did he advocate suicide, even by omission. That's some twisted logic. Call Alberto Gonzales, the man who beat the law until it screamed for mercy in his quest to make torture legal for his boss. I'm sure whatever law firm he works for now can use a mind capable of that kind of logic. None of you apparently see the danger in letting the government torture people. How once it decides it is done with external enemies it begins searching for them at home. This is how totalitarian states start - with the best of intentions, and people willing to give them permission. The fact that it was a Republican administration that thought torture was a good idea is almost sufficient reason by itself why that party should cease to exist.Wise people learn from the experience of others. Most of us must just plod through the process until it is too late. The warnings from other societies just do not register. |
|
|
|
Post by Ranger John on Dec 10, 2014 7:11:24 GMT -5
He did not. However, He did advocate standing up for Christian values, which at that time were not couched as "Christian". Nor did he advocate suicide, even by omission. That's some twisted logic. Call Alberto Gonzales, the man who beat the law until it screamed for mercy in his quest to make torture legal for his boss. I'm sure whatever law firm he works for now can use a mind capable of that kind of logic. None of you apparently see the danger in letting the government torture people. How once it decides it is done with external enemies it begins searching for them at home. This is how totalitarian states start - with the best of intentions, and people willing to give them permission. The fact that it was a Republican administration that thought torture was a good idea is almost sufficient reason by itself why that party should cease to exist. Didn't Obama stop that already? If so, what is the purpose of this report now? 10 years on, with no one left to hold to account? You don't see the danger that this sort of report poses to our national credibility. Or the trust our allies place in us to keep our mutual secrets. As for government torture, most likely it will happen again. It probably has happened under Obama. It almost definitely has happened under every wartime president back to and including Washington. The ugly truth of the world is that there are nasty, brutish and evil people in it. Often the only effective way to deal with them is to be nasty, evil and brutish to them. As for what the government torturers do when they're done with people like Khalid Sheik Mohammed, there's a reason why "the slippery slope" is considered a logical fallacy. |
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheroad on Dec 10, 2014 7:13:55 GMT -5
I believe torture is wrong. I have no use for the Muslim faith, regarding it as having ruined two once promising civilizations (the Arabs and the Persians) and of being without redeeming values. But I do not believe in descending to their level. So you are for cultural and national suicide, just to prevent "descending to their level"? You are engaging in moral relativism. You conflate actions without context. We didn't start this war, but we are in it, and we either win it, or lose it. And losing it means losing our country, our morals, and our lives. You claim to be an atheist. Will you still be atheist when you risk having your head removed, with a dull knife, for not converting? It strikes me redleg that some of the things in this report indicates we've already lost our morals. I join EY in having little use for those who commit violence in the name of Islam (or Christianity, or Judaism, or...), but this is not how the US wages war. |
|
|
|
Post by davinci on Dec 10, 2014 7:46:43 GMT -5
LMAO!  The folks who've brought you 79 investigations and reports and hearings on Benghazi because they don't like the outcome each time suddenly question this report and want it hidden?  Torture is wrong. It's never been proven to gain credible intell. It makes us as bad as those folks doing the beheading. It endangers our people all over the globe. ..... |
|
|
|
Post by davinci on Dec 10, 2014 7:54:35 GMT -5
20 key findings about CIA interrogations 1 “not an effective means of acquiring intelligence” 2 “rested on inaccurate claims of their effectiveness” 3 “brutal and far worse than the CIA represented” 4 “conditions of confinement for CIA detainees were harsher” 5 “repeatedly provided inaccurate information” 6 “actively avoided or impeded congressional oversight” 7 “impeded effective White House oversight” 8 “complicated, and in some cases impeded, the national security missions” 9 “impeded oversight by the CIA’s Office of Inspector General” 10 “coordinated the release of classified information to the media” 11 “unprepared as it began operating” 12 “deeply flawed throughout the program's duration” 13 “overwhelmingly outsourced operations” 14 “coercive interrogation techniques that had not been approved” 15 “did not conduct a comprehensive or accurate accounting of the number of individuals it detained” 16 “failed to adequately evaluate the effectiveness” 17 “rarely reprimanded or held personnel accountable” 18 “ignored numerous internal critiques, criticisms, and objections” 19 “inherently unsustainable” 20 “damaged the United States' standing in the world” link |
|
|
|
Post by rocketwolf on Dec 10, 2014 8:44:49 GMT -5
I am against government torture
BECAUSE
Government spying on US citizens is supposed to be against the law.
Well we have seen how well that prohibition is working.
So do you think that government torture of US citizens is impossible in the future?
If you do I go a very large and long bridge across the Bay Ill sell you for a dollar.
|
|
|
|
Post by howarewegoingtopay on Dec 10, 2014 9:06:33 GMT -5
LMAO! The folks who've brought you 79 investigations and reports and hearings on Benghazi because they don't like the outcome each time suddenly question this report and want it hidden? Torture is wrong. It's never been proven to gain credible intell. It makes us as bad as those folks doing the beheading. It endangers our people all over the globe. ..... LMAO! The folks who said all those investigations and reports and hearings were false are not jumping on this one as true. Torture is a tool, one that I don't think our government should be using, but it probably has confirmed intelligence that was gotten by other means, some say that we got Bin Laden from that torture that didn't work. While I don't think our government should use torture, I also don't think we need to broadcast to the world at this time that we have in fact used torture, or that we will not use it in the future. Or that we state it doesn't work, that is the problem with this report. If Obama isn't using torture then why the release? Well because of politics. |
|
|
|
Post by howarewegoingtopay on Dec 10, 2014 9:07:40 GMT -5
I am against government torture BECAUSE Government spying on US citizens is supposed to be against the law. Well we have seen how well that prohibition is working. So do you think that government torture of US citizens is impossible in the future? If you do I go a very large and long bridge across the Bay Ill sell you for a dollar. Publishing this report will do nothing to stop torture, it has already been illegal. |
|
|
|
Post by com6063 on Dec 10, 2014 9:09:26 GMT -5
Shut down the CIA, right now. It is corrupt.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ranger John on Dec 10, 2014 9:49:22 GMT -5
20 key findings about CIA interrogations 1 “not an effective means of acquiring intelligence” 2 “rested on inaccurate claims of their effectiveness” 3 “brutal and far worse than the CIA represented” 4 “conditions of confinement for CIA detainees were harsher” 5 “repeatedly provided inaccurate information” 6 “actively avoided or impeded congressional oversight” 7 “impeded effective White House oversight” 8 “complicated, and in some cases impeded, the national security missions” 9 “impeded oversight by the CIA’s Office of Inspector General” 10 “coordinated the release of classified information to the media” 11 “unprepared as it began operating” 12 “deeply flawed throughout the program's duration” 13 “overwhelmingly outsourced operations” 14 “coercive interrogation techniques that had not been approved” 15 “did not conduct a comprehensive or accurate accounting of the number of individuals it detained” 16 “failed to adequately evaluate the effectiveness” 17 “rarely reprimanded or held personnel accountable” 18 “ignored numerous internal critiques, criticisms, and objections” 19 “inherently unsustainable” 20 “damaged the United States' standing in the world” linkThe Democrats have been spouting this same debunked nonsense for ten years. Dressing it up as an official report doesn't suddenly make the statements true. |
|
I think I missed my calling. 
The folks who've brought you 79 investigations and reports and hearings on Benghazi because they don't like the outcome each time suddenly question this report and want it hidden? 
