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Post by redleg on Jan 27, 2015 22:18:50 GMT -5
So, you can't answer my question. Got it. If one is on food stamps, it's not the fault of the employer. Or are you now saying that contracts shouldn't be honored, if the employee isn't "making it" on what he/she signed on for? That employers should be forced to pay every employee whatever they need to "make it"? Oh, I'm sorry... no employer in the U.S. is forced as an obligation to pay their employees any certain wage... they are free to exploit the community and pay whatever they want to pay and get away with it... because many workers have no choice other than to work their... and leave it up to you and me to supplement those low wages... I know individuals who have worked at Walmart for over 10 years... and are still making just over $8 per hour... not really enough to cover the rise in the cost of living over the last 10 years... Well, after 70 years of Liberal pablum instead of education, you are correct. Those that succeed are the ones that manage to shake off the indoctrination, and learn useful skills instead of "you owe me". Those corporations pay what they do because people are willing to work for them for those wages. And those individuals you "know" evidently don't have either the brains or the drive to move up in the company. That's not the company's fault, it's theirs.
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Post by redleg on Jan 27, 2015 22:22:37 GMT -5
If one is on food stamps, it's not the fault of the employer. Or are you now saying that contracts shouldn't be honored, if the employee isn't "making it" on what he/she signed on for? That employers should be forced to pay every employee whatever they need to "make it"? Maybe it's not the fault of the employer. But... who would you rather pay the cost of Wal-Mart's employees (to continue the example): Wal-Mart customers? Or everyone in the Wal-Mart's region? That second one is what happens NOW. Let me anticipate the compassionate conservative's response: Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses? Maybe you'd like to simple cease providing public assistance, and hope this forces employers to raise wages (or lose their employees to those who do), but as a practical matter do you think that's likely to happen in a country half liberal and half conservative, and not all the conservatives are as hard-hearted as ol' Ebenezer was? Businessmen, many of whom claim to be conservatives, only talk the talk when it comes to less government. They *like* the social safety net because it lets them cut prices by pushing some of their manpower costs onto the electorate in general, instead of only onto their customers. You need big government for that to work. Well, there you go again, confusing compassion with coercion. Welfare and food stamps are not compassion, they are theft. The government simply takes the money of those that earn it, and give it to those THE GOVERNMENT has decided are worthy. IOT buy votes. And those "hard hearted" businessmen are the very ones you would castigate if they simply folded their tents and went overseas to avoid all those taxes and regulations imposed by your soft headed politicians, nearly none of which have ever worked in the private sector, or haven't for 40 years or more.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 27, 2015 23:06:14 GMT -5
Oh, I'm sorry... no employer in the U.S. is forced as an obligation to pay their employees any certain wage... they are free to exploit the community and pay whatever they want to pay and get away with it... because many workers have no choice other than to work their... and leave it up to you and me to supplement those low wages... I know individuals who have worked at Walmart for over 10 years... and are still making just over $8 per hour... not really enough to cover the rise in the cost of living over the last 10 years... Well, after 70 years of Liberal pablum instead of education, you are correct. Those that succeed are the ones that manage to shake off the indoctrination, and learn useful skills instead of "you owe me". Those corporations pay what they do because people are willing to work for them for those wages. And those individuals you "know" evidently don't have either the brains or the drive to move up in the company. That's not the company's fault, it's theirs. I know I'm correct... I didn't need you to tell me that I was... I guess not everyone has the brains and drive that you have...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 27, 2015 23:08:37 GMT -5
Maybe it's not the fault of the employer. But... who would you rather pay the cost of Wal-Mart's employees (to continue the example): Wal-Mart customers? Or everyone in the Wal-Mart's region? That second one is what happens NOW. Let me anticipate the compassionate conservative's response: Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses? Maybe you'd like to simple cease providing public assistance, and hope this forces employers to raise wages (or lose their employees to those who do), but as a practical matter do you think that's likely to happen in a country half liberal and half conservative, and not all the conservatives are as hard-hearted as ol' Ebenezer was? Businessmen, many of whom claim to be conservatives, only talk the talk when it comes to less government. They *like* the social safety net because it lets them cut prices by pushing some of their manpower costs onto the electorate in general, instead of only onto their customers. You need big government for that to work. Well, there you go again, confusing compassion with coercion. Welfare and food stamps are not compassion, they are theft. The government simply takes the money of those that earn it, and give it to those THE GOVERNMENT has decided are worthy. IOT buy votes. And those "hard hearted" businessmen are the very ones you would castigate if they simply folded their tents and went overseas to avoid all those taxes and regulations imposed by your soft headed politicians, nearly none of which have ever worked in the private sector, or haven't for 40 years or more. I had a neighbor not long ago who lied to keep getting her food stamps... and she's a die-hard Republican voter...
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 27, 2015 23:26:10 GMT -5
Well, there you go again, confusing compassion with coercion. Welfare and food stamps are not compassion, they are theft. The government simply takes the money of those that earn it, and give it to those THE GOVERNMENT has decided are worthy. IOT buy votes. And those "hard hearted" businessmen are the very ones you would castigate if they simply folded their tents and went overseas to avoid all those taxes and regulations imposed by your soft headed politicians, nearly none of which have ever worked in the private sector, or haven't for 40 years or more. It's a nice rant about the gimmes, but it doesn't tackle the questions I posed.
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Post by redleg on Jan 28, 2015 9:04:41 GMT -5
Well, after 70 years of Liberal pablum instead of education, you are correct. Those that succeed are the ones that manage to shake off the indoctrination, and learn useful skills instead of "you owe me". Those corporations pay what they do because people are willing to work for them for those wages. And those individuals you "know" evidently don't have either the brains or the drive to move up in the company. That's not the company's fault, it's theirs. I know I'm correct... I didn't need you to tell me that I was... I guess not everyone has the brains and drive that you have... Personally, I'm doing exactly what I want to do. However, I have been poor, out of work, wondering where my next meal would come from. Not for long, because I got myself trained to do whatever I had to do to get a job. Eventually, I joined the Army, because it was a steady pay check.
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Post by redleg on Jan 28, 2015 9:05:31 GMT -5
Well, there you go again, confusing compassion with coercion. Welfare and food stamps are not compassion, they are theft. The government simply takes the money of those that earn it, and give it to those THE GOVERNMENT has decided are worthy. IOT buy votes. And those "hard hearted" businessmen are the very ones you would castigate if they simply folded their tents and went overseas to avoid all those taxes and regulations imposed by your soft headed politicians, nearly none of which have ever worked in the private sector, or haven't for 40 years or more. I had a neighbor not long ago who lied to keep getting her food stamps... and she's a die-hard Republican voter... And have you reported her to the authorities? If not, you are complicit in her crime.
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Post by redleg on Jan 28, 2015 9:08:42 GMT -5
Well, there you go again, confusing compassion with coercion. Welfare and food stamps are not compassion, they are theft. The government simply takes the money of those that earn it, and give it to those THE GOVERNMENT has decided are worthy. IOT buy votes. And those "hard hearted" businessmen are the very ones you would castigate if they simply folded their tents and went overseas to avoid all those taxes and regulations imposed by your soft headed politicians, nearly none of which have ever worked in the private sector, or haven't for 40 years or more. It's a nice rant about the gimmes, but it doesn't tackle the questions I posed. Yes, I did. Just in a roundabout way. No one should "pay for them" under extortion. Those of us that are willing are welcome to pay for them voluntarily. Welfare, and food stamps, should only be for those that are actually unable to work, not those that quit school, got pregnant with no husband, or got into drugs. Those are all voluntary actions, and it shouldn't be up to the rest of us to pay for their decisions under duress.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 9:22:19 GMT -5
I know I'm correct... I didn't need you to tell me that I was... I guess not everyone has the brains and drive that you have... Personally, I'm doing exactly what I want to do. However, I have been poor, out of work, wondering where my next meal would come from. Not for long, because I got myself trained to do whatever I had to do to get a job. Eventually, I joined the Army, because it was a steady pay check. Good for you... I honestly can't say I've ever been there... I learned to be responsible young... very younng...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 9:25:19 GMT -5
I had a neighbor not long ago who lied to keep getting her food stamps... and she's a die-hard Republican voter... And have you reported her to the authorities? If not, you are complicit in her crime. No, because I can't prove it... just like I can't prove where "W" was instead on his NG meetings... but I know... I don't report things I can't prove...
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 28, 2015 9:55:11 GMT -5
Yes, I did. Just in a roundabout way. No one should "pay for them" under extortion. Those of us that are willing are welcome to pay for them voluntarily. Welfare, and food stamps, should only be for those that are actually unable to work, not those that quit school, got pregnant with no husband, or got into drugs. Those are all voluntary actions, and it shouldn't be up to the rest of us to pay for their decisions under duress. People are going to make bad decisions in life. There are a number of reasons why that happens. And while I don't personally believe in cleaning up after the stupid, for a lot of reasons, I don't see it changing any time soon, because a lot of people do believe in doing that. It ain't gonna change any time soon. So... do you assume some ideal that poorly models the world, or try to work within the framework of how the world actually runs? An inability to do that latter is what will eventually rip apart the TEA party. And likely the GOP. They just don't seem to understand people.
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Post by aponderer on Jan 28, 2015 10:22:32 GMT -5
Speaking of 1.8 million new jobs in 2014... The National Bureau of Economic Research completed a study that indicates that almost 60% of those new jobs were filled by unemployed folks whose extended unemployment benefits ran out:
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Post by rocketwolf on Jan 28, 2015 11:27:28 GMT -5
Well, there you go again, confusing compassion with coercion. Welfare and food stamps are not compassion, they are theft. The government simply takes the money of those that earn it, and give it to those THE GOVERNMENT has decided are worthy. IOT buy votes. And those "hard hearted" businessmen are the very ones you would castigate if they simply folded their tents and went overseas to avoid all those taxes and regulations imposed by your soft headed politicians, nearly none of which have ever worked in the private sector, or haven't for 40 years or more. I had a neighbor not long ago who lied to keep getting her food stamps... and she's a die-hard Republican voter... Sure you did and sure she is.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jan 28, 2015 11:29:55 GMT -5
Speaking of 1.8 million new jobs in 2014... The National Bureau of Economic Research completed a study that indicates that almost 60% of those new jobs were filled by unemployed folks whose extended unemployment benefits ran out: Now that is a BIG SURPRISE,
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Post by aponderer on Jan 28, 2015 12:20:32 GMT -5
Well, there you go again, confusing compassion with coercion. Welfare and food stamps are not compassion, they are theft. The government simply takes the money of those that earn it, and give it to those THE GOVERNMENT has decided are worthy. IOT buy votes. And those "hard hearted" businessmen are the very ones you would castigate if they simply folded their tents and went overseas to avoid all those taxes and regulations imposed by your soft headed politicians, nearly none of which have ever worked in the private sector, or haven't for 40 years or more. I had a neighbor not long ago who lied to keep getting her food stamps... and she's a die-hard Republican voter... There are some lefty Repubs just as there are some righty Dems...
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Post by Ranger John on Jan 28, 2015 12:26:27 GMT -5
I had a neighbor not long ago who lied to keep getting her food stamps... and she's a die-hard Republican voter... There are some lefty Repubs just as there are some righty Dems... And then there are people who just like to accuse enemies of things they have no proof of.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 28, 2015 13:02:40 GMT -5
Speaking of 1.8 million new jobs in 2014... The National Bureau of Economic Research completed a study that indicates that almost 60% of those new jobs were filled by unemployed folks whose extended unemployment benefits ran out: (Emphasis mine) To the surprise of no-one. That's why you can't just keep re-upping unemployment benefits; past a certain point you're not helping a guy in a jam, you're creating a lifestyle. But you can't tell liberals that.
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Post by aponderer on Jan 28, 2015 13:28:43 GMT -5
When you pay people not to work, guess what? They don't work. Duh...
I forget which one, but at one time one of the Scandinavian countries (I think) used to carry people for a number of years on unemployment, and when the unemployment benefitsd ran out, those people somehow found jobs. The gov't there recognized this and cut the unemployment benefits period shorter by a year. And, sure enough, those whose benefits ended earlier managed to find jobs for the most part, when their benefit payments stopped.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 15:46:37 GMT -5
Speaking of 1.8 million new jobs in 2014... The National Bureau of Economic Research completed a study that indicates that almost 60% of those new jobs were filled by unemployed folks whose extended unemployment benefits ran out: Good for that 60%...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 15:47:49 GMT -5
I had a neighbor not long ago who lied to keep getting her food stamps... and she's a die-hard Republican voter... Sure you did and sure she is. Come on down... I'll introduce you to her... (LS)
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 15:49:41 GMT -5
There are some lefty Repubs just as there are some righty Dems... And then there are people who just like to accuse enemies of things they have no proof of. Absolutely true... lot of things I've done, places I've been, and people I've met I can't prove to you... even if I wanted to do so... but that doesn't mean it isn't true... 'cept to you...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 15:53:11 GMT -5
Speaking of 1.8 million new jobs in 2014... The National Bureau of Economic Research completed a study that indicates that almost 60% of those new jobs were filled by unemployed folks whose extended unemployment benefits ran out: (Emphasis mine) To the surprise of no-one. That's why you can't just keep re-upping unemployment benefits; past a certain point you're not helping a guy in a jam, you're creating a lifestyle. But you can't tell liberals that. Not if they can learn to live off the benefits they are getting...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 15:59:07 GMT -5
When you pay people not to work, guess what? They don't work. Duh... I forget which one, but at one time one of the Scandinavian countries (I think) used to carry people for a number of years on unemployment, and when the unemployment benefits ran out, those people somehow found jobs. The gov't there recognized this and cut the unemployment benefits period shorter by a year. And, sure enough, those whose benefits ended earlier managed to find jobs for the most part, when their benefit payments stopped. Unemployment compensation is not intended to pay people not to work... it's to tide them over financially until they can find new work... that'a why one can't qualify for it if they left their job voluntarily... they must have been separated from their job due to no fault of their own... AND they must continue to seek work... I was on unemployment compensation for two months... and even during that short period of time, I was required at attend an 8 hour class on how to look for and get qualified for a job...
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Post by stevez51 on Jan 28, 2015 16:28:37 GMT -5
I have a family member who lost her job when the company closed operations in MD and moved to NC. She collected for almost 2 yrs knowing she was never going back to work.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 28, 2015 16:36:18 GMT -5
I have a family member who lost her job when the company closed operations in MD and moved to NC. She collected for almost 2 yrs knowing she was never going back to work. Did she not want to go back?... or could she not find another job?... there are a number of reasons former employers might do this... and I'm not against it as long as they follow the rules and qualify...
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