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Post by Ravenchamp on May 23, 2015 11:28:10 GMT -5
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Post by Ravenchamp on May 23, 2015 11:29:09 GMT -5
Protesters start to gather in Cleveland after a judge found police officer Michael Brelo ‘not guilty’ in the shooting deaths of two unarmed people in 2012.
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 23, 2015 14:54:00 GMT -5
That benefits Baltimore; the rabble-rousers now have a more topical focus.
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Post by freddfish on May 23, 2015 16:26:56 GMT -5
That benefits Baltimore; the rabble-rousers now have a more topical focus. I never got the feeling that the Freddie Gray thing interested the rabble-rousers as much as Ferguson or other places. First, there were black cops involved....Second, the people in Baltimore were not very welcoming to them, suspecting (correctly) that once the agitators stirred up enough rabble to burn their neighborhoods to the ground, that they would piss off to the next outrage site, and leave the Baltimore citizens to clean up all the mess. We ain't as dumb as all that.... |
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Post by Ranger John on May 23, 2015 17:52:34 GMT -5
That benefits Baltimore; the rabble-rousers now have a more topical focus. The immediate problem will likely move to Cleveland. I suspect the more long term problem will be the DOJ getting involved. Obama seems keen on forming some sort of national police force. Or at least forcing oversight on the cities. In theory, that oversight should be a good thing. These city governments are crooked. In practice, so is the DOJ. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 23, 2015 19:21:00 GMT -5
SOMEONE has to ask: how are we going to tell post-riot Cleveland from pre-riot Cleveland?  |
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Post by aboutwell on May 23, 2015 19:26:44 GMT -5
Baltimore's mayor and police force handled the issue there better than Ferguson did...
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 23, 2015 19:29:44 GMT -5
Baltimore's mayor and police force handled the issue there better than Ferguson did...  |
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Post by Ranger John on May 23, 2015 20:00:03 GMT -5
SOMEONE has to ask: how are we going to tell post-riot Cleveland from pre-riot Cleveland? I donno EY. Things could be much, much worse than in Baltimore or Ferguson. Cleveland is more susceptible to large fires than most other cities. Remember when they managed to burn down their river? You know they say every country in the world has a city they make fun of. In the US, it's Cleveland. In Japan... well... in Japan it's Cleveland. |
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Post by highmc2 on May 23, 2015 20:27:22 GMT -5
Why are cops shooting unarmed suspects and getting away with it?
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Post by Ranger John on May 23, 2015 20:49:35 GMT -5
Why are cops shooting unarmed suspects and getting away with it? In this case, it was because the officer believed the suspects were armed. |
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Post by highmc2 on May 23, 2015 23:28:47 GMT -5
Brelo — who fired a total of 49 shots, including 15 while standing on the hood of the suspects' vehicle — faced as many as 22 years in prison had the judge convicted him of voluntary manslaughter in the shooting that happened after Timothy Russell's beat-up Chevy Malibu backfired while speeding by police headquarters. news.yahoo.com/verdict-reached-officer-over-deaths-137-shot-barrage-122057059.htmlIs that 3+ clips for an unseen weapon?
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Post by rentedmule on May 24, 2015 7:27:22 GMT -5
This discussion seems to be just more evidence that government can't be trusted with weaponry.
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Post by rentedmule on May 24, 2015 7:38:44 GMT -5
Baltimore's mayor and police force handled the issue there better than Ferguson did... The "handling" consisted of allowing the cretins to roan at will and destroy as they pleased. The "handling" consisted of ordering the police to become statues and fools standing down while police cars burned, officers were attacked (turn the other cheek?) and fire responders were stoned and thwarted. The middle class productive citizens at the ball game were treated as criminals and confined against their will and seen as a threat! While the cretins had free range all across the city. My conclusion is to finalize the dysfunction of Baltimore and just disband the evil attempt of the police to maintain order. Those people ( the police and firemen) should just move on with their lives and go to another jurisdiction where they will have value. |
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Post by Ravenchamp on May 24, 2015 7:46:24 GMT -5
Why are cops shooting unarmed suspects and getting away with it? Bigger question. .. why do punk thugs break enough laws that require being shot? Hey punks get off the streets and go read a book. Learn something. |
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Post by Ranger John on May 24, 2015 11:53:58 GMT -5
Brelo — who fired a total of 49 shots, including 15 while standing on the hood of the suspects' vehicle — faced as many as 22 years in prison had the judge convicted him of voluntary manslaughter in the shooting that happened after Timothy Russell's beat-up Chevy Malibu backfired while speeding by police headquarters. news.yahoo.com/verdict-reached-officer-over-deaths-137-shot-barrage-122057059.htmlIs that 3+ clips for an unseen weapon? Well, that's not really correct either. They'd been driving around like maniacs and refusing to stop. Vehicles can be used as weapons - and are frequently treated as such by the courts for good reason. In that sense, they were NOT unarmed. |
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Post by aboutwell on May 24, 2015 12:57:31 GMT -5
Baltimore's mayor and police force handled the issue there better than Ferguson did... The "handling" consisted of allowing the cretins to roan at will and destroy as they pleased. The "handling" consisted of ordering the police to become statues and fools standing down while police cars burned, officers were attacked (turn the other cheek?) and fire responders were stoned and thwarted. The middle class productive citizens at the ball game were treated as criminals and confined against their will and seen as a threat! While the cretins had free range all across the city. My conclusion is to finalize the dysfunction of Baltimore and just disband the evil attempt of the police to maintain order. Those people ( the police and firemen) should just move on with their lives and go to another jurisdiction where they will have value. Thank you for your opinion and characterization... like I said, it was still better than Ferguson... |
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Post by aboutwell on May 24, 2015 13:07:03 GMT -5
Brelo — who fired a total of 49 shots, including 15 while standing on the hood of the suspects' vehicle — faced as many as 22 years in prison had the judge convicted him of voluntary manslaughter in the shooting that happened after Timothy Russell's beat-up Chevy Malibu backfired while speeding by police headquarters. news.yahoo.com/verdict-reached-officer-over-deaths-137-shot-barrage-122057059.htmlIs that 3+ clips for an unseen weapon? Well, that's not really correct either. They'd been driving around like maniacs and refusing to stop. Vehicles can be used as weapons - and are frequently treated as such by the courts for good reason. In that sense, they were NOT unarmed. I agree... and to say that the officer waited until they were "no longer a threat" isn't necessarily true... as long as there's breath left in someone, they can still be a threat... (See the end of Sleeping with the enemy)... |
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Post by aponderer on May 24, 2015 13:31:29 GMT -5
The "handling" consisted of allowing the cretins to roan at will and destroy as they pleased. The "handling" consisted of ordering the police to become statues and fools standing down while police cars burned, officers were attacked (turn the other cheek?) and fire responders were stoned and thwarted. The middle class productive citizens at the ball game were treated as criminals and confined against their will and seen as a threat! While the cretins had free range all across the city. My conclusion is to finalize the dysfunction of Baltimore and just disband the evil attempt of the police to maintain order. Those people ( the police and firemen) should just move on with their lives and go to another jurisdiction where they will have value. Thank you for your opinion and characterization... like I said, it was still better than Ferguson... But that's really not saying much... Especially to those who were victims of the rioters...  |
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Post by aboutwell on May 24, 2015 13:57:14 GMT -5
Can't disagree with that...
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 24, 2015 15:35:43 GMT -5
Why are cops shooting unarmed suspects and getting away with it? I don't know if this is a serious question, but my serious answer is that people trust the police to have good judgement. When police prove untrustworthy this also reflects on the competence or integrity (or both) of those who gave them police powers. Often, at the highest levels, this is politicians. Politicians *never* like to admit they might be fallible. Indeed, as far as I can tell the principal qualifications for being a politician are a glib tongue, likeability, and an unshakeable conviction in one's own infalliblity. |
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Post by rentedmule on May 24, 2015 18:01:29 GMT -5
The "handling" consisted of allowing the cretins to roan at will and destroy as they pleased. The "handling" consisted of ordering the police to become statues and fools standing down while police cars burned, officers were attacked (turn the other cheek?) and fire responders were stoned and thwarted. The middle class productive citizens at the ball game were treated as criminals and confined against their will and seen as a threat! While the cretins had free range all across the city. My conclusion is to finalize the dysfunction of Baltimore and just disband the evil attempt of the police to maintain order. Those people ( the police and firemen) should just move on with their lives and go to another jurisdiction where they will have value. Thank you for your opinion and characterization... like I said, it was still better than Ferguson... Oddly it was "better". During the riots Baltimore had NO murders! Can you believe it? Post riots the murders began again as usual. About 4 to 9 shootings per day. The mayor is pleased and bragging about the end of the riots! |
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Post by aboutwell on May 24, 2015 21:35:51 GMT -5
Thank you for your opinion and characterization... like I said, it was still better than Ferguson... Oddly it was "better". During the riots Baltimore had NO murders! Can you believe it? Post riots the murders began again as usual. About 4 to 9 shootings per day. The mayor is pleased and bragging about the end of the riots! 4 to 9 shootings per day?... maybe... but murders?... no... (and I know you didn't say there was)... but as of last week, Baltimore had had 188 murders this year... for an average of just over 1.3 per day... This year in Baltimore, both murders and shootings are down compared to the same time last year, according to the latest police statistics. As of Monday morning, 188 people have been slain in the city and non-fatal shootings were down about 12 percent. Baltimore Sun And how long did the riots last?... one night?... (Edited to state that the figures above from the Baltimore Sun were for November 2014) |
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Post by rentedmule on May 25, 2015 5:01:23 GMT -5
Oddly it was "better". During the riots Baltimore had NO murders! Can you believe it? Post riots the murders began again as usual. About 4 to 9 shootings per day. The mayor is pleased and bragging about the end of the riots! 4 to 9 shootings per day?... maybe... but murders?... no... (and I know you didn't say there was)... but as of last week, Baltimore had had 188 murders this year... for an average of just over 1.3 per day... This year in Baltimore, both murders and shootings are down compared to the same time last year, according to the latest police statistics. As of Monday morning, 188 people have been slain in the city and non-fatal shootings were down about 12 percent. Baltimore Sun And how long did the riots last?... one night?... Not sure about your link? I'm certain you are correct (since you always are) but all my info says murders are up and non lethal shootings are WAY up. data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/ |
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 25, 2015 9:29:01 GMT -5
Murders and non-fatal shootings are significantly up; this has been reported numerous local places.
It has also been reported that the police are understandably hesitant to do their job in the worst neighborhoods, since they now regard Stephanie Rawlings-Blake and Marilyn Mosby as their enemies. That may not be justified if the six charged officers actually did precipitate Gray's death, but convincing the rest of the force of this will take time. And until the city can do it, there's going to be more violence. Fire them? Sure. Most of them will be hired in a surrounding jurisdiction within the week, forcing the city to expend money training new officers. That also takes time. And a department whose patrollers are mostly green will make a lot of mistakes.
The city's in a rough spot right now and only time will fix it, to the extend it can be fixed.
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