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Post by palealeman on Dec 5, 2017 19:49:45 GMT -5
There's no evidence that anyone "authorized" Flynn to negotiate with the Russians or anyone else. Talking is not the same as negotiating.
And there was no necessity. Just more of your dreaming again.
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Post by redleg on Dec 5, 2017 20:47:35 GMT -5
(1) May be CONSIDERED unconstitutional, but hasn't been found to be so. It's still the law. (2) You still can't grasp the concept that a president-elect is still private citizen, and the people working on his transition team are also private citizens. None of them have any authority to conduct foreign affairs on behalf of the US unless specifically designated to do so by the President. What he did was patently illegal. I strongly suspect he is not being prosecuted at this time as part of the deal to get his testimony. However, the possibility of prosecution still looms. Flynn was not "a civilian" under the meanings of the Logan Act. He was the National Security Advisor. That means it was under his job description to do what he did. Even Mueller isn't saying that what he did was illegal. Hence the "lying to the FBI" charge. He couldn't be gotten on anything else. They all have the authority to do the job that they are picked to do. Nothing he did was illegal, unless you will also claim that everything The Puppet, W, Waco Billy Boy, and all the Presidents back at least to TR was illegal. When will we see the special counsel on The Puppet? He actually sent "envoys" to foreign nations as a candidate. He was actually a "private citizen". The President elect is not. He's about to take over the government. He has the authority to empanel his cabinet, and have them start making the connections they will need when they are in place. The fact that you hate Trump doesn't make everything he does illegal. He's the duly elected President. Get over it.
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Post by redleg on Dec 5, 2017 20:58:46 GMT -5
Keep dreaming and denying, RJ. I think Flynn was not charged, as I said above, because Mueller wants his testimony. There are other charges out there that could have been brought but, at this time, have not been. How do you know what sort of case Mueller has? Are you privy to the FBI investigation? Remember, when you make a deal, it's usually to avoid prosecution on other, potentially/probably more serious charges . . . like having unauthorized contacts with foreign governments to conduct government business you're not allowed to conduct at the time. You keep saying that all prior administrations have done the same thing. Can you provide an example? I don't think it's ever been done in an attempt to influence foreign policy. No there weren't. There was nothing he could get Flynn on except a process crime, because nothing he did was illegal. Whomever leaked his name, and transcripts of his conversations, on the other hand, did commit a felony. Why isn't Mueller trying to find out who did that? Why isn't he trying to find out any of the leakers on his team, who are also committing felonies. Flynn has an iron bound defense, that he can't get a fair trial, because of Mueller's sending his drug addled reprobates out to leak everything he finds. Mueller may very well be close to being indicted himself, for collusion with Comey to sink the "investigation" of The Felon. He has massive conflicts of interest, and may very well be facing a special prosecutor himself. If you are so dense and stupid that you don't know how the government transitions, why are you arguing about that which you are abysmally ignorant? The Puppet sent "envoys" to foreign nations as a candidate. Why aren't you demanding a special prosecutor for that? Or The Felon taking bribes from Russia to sell our uranium to them? Or The Gigolo trying to surrender the country to the NVA in Paris? www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/18/obama.trip/index.htmlwww.washdiplomat.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6745:german-envoy-attends-fundraiser-for-obama-&catid=1001:may-2007&Itemid=280www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/02/15/flashback-reports-obamas-2008-campaign-reps-secretly-talked-hamas-iran/
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Post by redleg on Dec 5, 2017 21:01:58 GMT -5
Not quite what it says, RJ. I saw that the State Dept had no problem and even offered to help contact various governments. However, talking with another country as part of an incoming administration to introduce oneself is not quite the same thing as conducting foreign policy, which is against the law without authorization. Did President Obama specifically authorize Flynn to conduct foreign policy? I strongly doubt it. You keep saying that it's "against the law", but you are simply making a complete idiot of yourself, instead of just a fool. As part of a Presidential transition team, all members are authorized to do whatever they need to do to smooth the transition. That includes discussing policy with foreign officials. He is not a civilian as part of the transition team, he's part of the government. You need to go to civics 101 and learn something, anything at all, about the US government. I suspect you know all you need to about the Soviet government.
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Post by redleg on Dec 5, 2017 21:02:40 GMT -5
There's no evidence that anyone "authorized" Flynn to negotiate with the Russians or anyone else. Talking is not the same as negotiating. And there was no necessity. Just more of your dreaming again. And neither are illegal, for a transition team.
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Post by Ranger John on Dec 6, 2017 7:55:20 GMT -5
There's no evidence that anyone "authorized" Flynn to negotiate with the Russians or anyone else. Talking is not the same as negotiating. And there was no necessity. Just more of your dreaming again. If any of this were true, and it’s obviously not, Mueller would have charged Flynn under the Logan Act. He didn’t. Live with it.
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Post by palealeman on Dec 6, 2017 8:50:21 GMT -5
Maybe he did, RJ. We don't know what the charges were other than the charge to which Flynn pleaded guilty. There could have been -- and probably were -- more charges that could still be brought if Flynn is not cooperative.
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Post by redleg on Dec 6, 2017 9:47:13 GMT -5
Maybe he did, RJ. We don't know what the charges were other than the charge to which Flynn pleaded guilty. There could have been -- and probably were -- more charges that could still be brought if Flynn is not cooperative. Given the criminal nature of this "investigation", anything they have on Flynn would have been leaked already had there been anything there. They have nothing, just as they have nothing on Trump. That's why they are "leaking" fake news about Deutsche Bank "subpoenas".
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Post by aboutwell on Dec 6, 2017 11:14:47 GMT -5
There's no evidence that anyone "authorized" Flynn to negotiate with the Russians or anyone else. Talking is not the same as negotiating. And there was no necessity. Just more of your dreaming again. If any of this were true, and it’s obviously not, Mueller would have charged Flynn under the Logan Act. He didn’t. Live with it. None of us have any idea as to what crimes with which Flynn might eventually be charged... thus the plea deal... NOT to get them... Not even you...
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Post by Ranger John on Dec 6, 2017 11:49:11 GMT -5
If any of this were true, and it’s obviously not, Mueller would have charged Flynn under the Logan Act. He didn’t. Live with it. None of us have any idea as to what crimes with which Flynn might eventually be charged... thus the plea deal... NOT to get them... Not even you... Sure we do. Flynn has been charged with “Lying to the FBI.” This is a fantastic way of destroying his credibility as a witness. Mueller apparently has no further use for him. No prosecutor who has the slightest idea what he’s doing charges a crucial witness with lying to anyone or anything until his usefulness as a prosecution witness is spent. Either Mueller is an idiot, or he’s done with Flynn. While I’m open to the possibility Mueller is an idiot, the latter is much more likely.
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Post by aboutwell on Dec 6, 2017 12:51:27 GMT -5
Like I said:
"None of us have any idea as to what crimes with which Flynn might eventually be charged...
Not even you."
"Eventually" means future... not present...
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Post by palealeman on Dec 6, 2017 13:50:29 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, Aboutwell. Sorry that no one else here can apparently understand simple English. As has been said several times, "Reading is fundamental." Some people just don't want to think . . . or believe that their Republican/Conservative idols could ever do anything wrong.
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Post by Ranger John on Dec 6, 2017 14:35:02 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, Aboutwell. Sorry that no one else here can apparently understand simple English. As has been said several times, "Reading is fundamental." Some people just don't want to think . . . or believe that their Republican/Conservative idols could ever do anything wrong. Nah. We just have a higher opinion of Mueller than you and aboutwell do. We don’t believe that Mueller would do something as monumentally stupid as to have a lead witness plead guilty to lying about anything to anyone unless said witness was already spent.
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Post by palealeman on Dec 6, 2017 15:36:46 GMT -5
You know, RJ, your legal opinions might have more weight if you understood something about the law, or the Court system, or the criminal justice system. I've learned over the years not to second-guess attorneys. I think Mueller knows what he's doing.
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Post by Ranger John on Dec 6, 2017 15:40:00 GMT -5
You know, RJ, your legal opinions might have more weight if you understood something about the law, or the Court system, or the criminal justice system. I've learned over the years not to second-guess attorneys. I think Mueller knows what he's doing. No you don’t. You think he charged a witness he needs to be credible with lying. If you think that means you know more about the law and courts than I do, we can add that to your list of fantasies.
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Post by palealeman on Dec 6, 2017 15:47:28 GMT -5
How long did you work for the Court system? Any Court system?
Does Flynn have a history of lying? He seems to be an honorable man, at least up until December a year ago. Since the phone conversations are apparently recorded, it's not much of a stretch to envision Flynn admitting he lied (as he has done) on the orders of or to save someone a little higher in the chain of command.
If you're saying that Flynn's admission of lying to the FBI colors all further testimony, I think you're way off base. But we'll see.
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Post by Ranger John on Dec 6, 2017 15:54:15 GMT -5
How long did you work for the Court system? Any Court system? Does Flynn have a history of lying? He seems to be an honorable man, at least up until December a year ago. Since the phone conversations are apparently recorded, it's not much of a stretch to envision Flynn admitting he lied (as he has done) on the orders of or to save someone a little higher in the chain of command. If you're saying that Flynn's admission of lying to the FBI colors all further testimony, I think you're way off base. But we'll see. It’s apparent that he lied out of political expediency. There wasn’t anything criminal about the conversations he had with the Russians. They just looked politically bad in light of the witch hunt the Democrats have launched against Trump. A prosecutor who needs a witness to be credible doesn’t charge said witness with lying. That Mueller has done so indicates he no longer needs Flynn for anything. More to the point, a prosecutor who has a case and a cooperating witness gets said witness to plead guilty to the larger criminal scheme because doing so establishes the existence of the scheme. Mueller is done investigating the Trump campaign for “colluding with the Russians” and is now just on a fishing expedition.
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Post by palealeman on Dec 6, 2017 18:09:32 GMT -5
Whatever you say, RJ. We'll see what happens.
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Post by redleg on Dec 7, 2017 10:12:13 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, Aboutwell. Sorry that no one else here can apparently understand simple English. As has been said several times, "Reading is fundamental." Some people just don't want to think . . . or believe that their Republican/Conservative idols could ever do anything wrong. He's simply pouring out stream of consciousness. He has no clue about the process, and is simply throwing out his hopes and dreams, which are simply that. No solid ground on which to stand. He won't be charged with anything else, because Mueller has shown his hand, that he's nothing but a partisan stooge, with no evidence, and no hope of getting any evidence. Flynn will walk on this charge, because the agent in charge is compromised, which compromises the entire charade the Party of the KKK is calling an investigation.
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Post by redleg on Dec 7, 2017 10:13:29 GMT -5
How long did you work for the Court system? Any Court system? Does Flynn have a history of lying? He seems to be an honorable man, at least up until December a year ago. Since the phone conversations are apparently recorded, it's not much of a stretch to envision Flynn admitting he lied (as he has done) on the orders of or to save someone a little higher in the chain of command. If you're saying that Flynn's admission of lying to the FBI colors all further testimony, I think you're way off base. But we'll see. Apparently, he does. He lied to Pence, lied to Congress, and lied to the FBI. That's a history of lying.
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