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Post by Ranger John on May 4, 2018 13:40:07 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on May 4, 2018 13:48:36 GMT -5
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Post by kemmer on May 4, 2018 23:35:25 GMT -5
Meh. One judge's opinion. Mueller has unlimited time and money to keep everyone in court, forever-- or at least the next 2 1/2 years. The circus shall continue.
'Course, I'm prejudiced. Where I'm sitting, this is supposed to be Romney's second term. *sigh*
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Post by Ranger John on May 5, 2018 8:17:04 GMT -5
Meh. One judge's opinion. Mueller has unlimited time and money to keep everyone in court, forever-- or at least the next 2 1/2 years. The circus shall continue. 'Course, I'm prejudiced. Where I'm sitting, this is supposed to be Romney's second term. *sigh* That was part of the judge's point. He also opposes giant fishing expeditions.
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Post by aboutwell on May 5, 2018 15:12:33 GMT -5
Mueller had fully authority to go wherever the investigation led... he is cleaning up around the cess pool before he jumps in for the big fish... excellent investigation by one of the best...
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Post by Ranger John on May 5, 2018 16:30:58 GMT -5
Mueller had fully authority to go wherever the investigation led... he is cleaning up around the cess pool before he jumps in for the big fish... excellent investigation by one of the best... At least one federal judge doubts that. Mueller's mandate was Russian meddling in the election. During discovery, Manafort's attorneys required Mueller to turn over any evidence he had of contact between Manafort at Russian officials. Mueller's response is apparently they have none. If that is the case, Mueller has over-played his hand.
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Post by breakingbad on May 6, 2018 14:31:33 GMT -5
Pettifoggery sums it up well. It will be interesting to see if Mueller drops the charges so he doesn't have to turn over the shaky evidence he has.
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Post by Ranger John on May 6, 2018 14:40:51 GMT -5
Pettifoggery sums it up well. It will be interesting to see if Mueller drops the charges so he doesn't have to turn over the shaky evidence he has. This is likely to go the same way for the civil suit the DNC filed against the Trump campaign. Discovery is gonna be a bitch.
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Post by aboutwell on May 7, 2018 8:49:29 GMT -5
You wish...
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Post by Ranger John on May 7, 2018 9:30:49 GMT -5
The DNC is charging the Trump campaign with working with the Russians to hack their computers in an effort to undermine Hillary Clinton. In order for their case to proceed, they're going to have to prove their servers were hacked. Which means they'll need to be turned over to a neutral third party for analysis. Most likely the DNC will refuse to do that, and their case will fail for lack of evidence. If they do turn over their servers, there appears to be a crap ton of major felony crimes on them. The illegal laundering of $80+ million in donations to Hillary without first laundering it through the state committees for one. And the likely discovery that the wikileaks hacks were an inside job, because file transfers were too fast to have been done remotely, and we're likely accomplished with a thumb drive at DNC HQ.
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Post by redleg on May 7, 2018 10:36:58 GMT -5
Meh. One judge's opinion. Mueller has unlimited time and money to keep everyone in court, forever-- or at least the next 2 1/2 years. The circus shall continue. 'Course, I'm prejudiced. Where I'm sitting, this is supposed to be Romney's second term. *sigh* Maybe. Then again, it only took one Federal judge to rewrite the immigration laws and prevent Trump from stopping the invasion of Islamic terrorists.
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Post by redleg on May 7, 2018 10:40:26 GMT -5
Mueller had fully authority to go wherever the investigation led... he is cleaning up around the cess pool before he jumps in for the big fish... excellent investigation by one of the best... No, he didn't. And the problem with him thinking so is showing up now. He has nothing on anyone, despite the 'indictments'. If any of these guys had decent lawyers, they would have had all of the charges laughed out of court. All of his "evidence" is fruit of the poison tree, since he had no probable cause to go after anyone. He had no crimes to investigate when he was appointed. Nothing he has 'investigated' is a crime, therefore he has no reason to be investigating. He is using illegally gained "information" to persecute non crimes, and in the process, to make up crimes by lying to judges, ignoring exculpatory evidence, and simply lying about everything he is doing.
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Post by aboutwell on May 7, 2018 18:10:30 GMT -5
The DNC is charging the Trump campaign with working with the Russians to hack their computers in an effort to undermine Hillary Clinton. In order for their case to proceed, they're going to have to prove their servers were hacked. Which means they'll need to be turned over to a neutral third party for analysis. Most likely the DNC will refuse to do that, and their case will fail for lack of evidence. If they do turn over their servers, there appears to be a crap ton of major felony crimes on them. The illegal laundering of $80+ million in donations to Hillary without first laundering it through the state committees for one. And the likely discovery that the wikileaks hacks were an inside job, because file transfers were too fast to have been done remotely, and we're likely accomplished with a thumb drive at DNC HQ. Why do they need a special investigator... just call you...
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Post by aboutwell on May 7, 2018 18:11:52 GMT -5
Mueller had fully authority to go wherever the investigation led... he is cleaning up around the cess pool before he jumps in for the big fish... excellent investigation by one of the best... No, he didn't. And the problem with him thinking so is showing up now. He has nothing on anyone, despite the 'indictments'. If any of these guys had decent lawyers, they would have had all of the charges laughed out of court. All of his "evidence" is fruit of the poison tree, since he had no probable cause to go after anyone. He had no crimes to investigate when he was appointed. Nothing he has 'investigated' is a crime, therefore he has no reason to be investigating. He is using illegally gained "information" to persecute non crimes, and in the process, to make up crimes by lying to judges, ignoring exculpatory evidence, and simply lying about everything he is doing. I have plenty of popcorn and coke... and time...
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Post by Ranger John on May 7, 2018 19:48:14 GMT -5
The DNC is charging the Trump campaign with working with the Russians to hack their computers in an effort to undermine Hillary Clinton. In order for their case to proceed, they're going to have to prove their servers were hacked. Which means they'll need to be turned over to a neutral third party for analysis. Most likely the DNC will refuse to do that, and their case will fail for lack of evidence. If they do turn over their servers, there appears to be a crap ton of major felony crimes on them. The illegal laundering of $80+ million in donations to Hillary without first laundering it through the state committees for one. And the likely discovery that the wikileaks hacks were an inside job, because file transfers were too fast to have been done remotely, and we're likely accomplished with a thumb drive at DNC HQ. Why do they need a special investigator... just call you... I don't know why they need a Special Counsel. No one does. Not even DAG Rosenstein, or he would have been able to explain what crimes the Trump campaign committed, rather than just an open-ended counter intelligence investigation that shouldn't have a prosecutor assigned to it in the first place.
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Post by palealeman on May 7, 2018 21:01:01 GMT -5
Looks like Mueller has the authority he needs to investigate anything he finds connected to the charges that the Russians may have colluded with the Trump campaign in the election. From the letter of appointment from DAG Rosenstein:
The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.
If Rosenstein -- or anyone else -- knew what crimes had been committed, RJ, then you're right, there probably wouldn't be any need for a special prosecutor. But that's the point -- a point you never quite seem to get -- that the purpose of the special prosecutor and investigation is to determine if a crime was, in fact, committed, or at least if there is probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. You continue to put the cart before the horse, but that's what we've come to expect from you unthinking partisans who continue to repeat the party talking points.
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Post by redleg on May 7, 2018 22:10:05 GMT -5
No, he didn't. And the problem with him thinking so is showing up now. He has nothing on anyone, despite the 'indictments'. If any of these guys had decent lawyers, they would have had all of the charges laughed out of court. All of his "evidence" is fruit of the poison tree, since he had no probable cause to go after anyone. He had no crimes to investigate when he was appointed. Nothing he has 'investigated' is a crime, therefore he has no reason to be investigating. He is using illegally gained "information" to persecute non crimes, and in the process, to make up crimes by lying to judges, ignoring exculpatory evidence, and simply lying about everything he is doing. I have plenty of popcorn and coke... and time... As do I. Well, not so much time. However, Comey used the fake "dossier" to get warrants to spy on American citizens, at the behest of The Puppet. That's several crimes right there. Mueller has used extortion against innocent citizens to try to get them to make up something he could use against Trump. That's not only a crime under RICO, it's treason. Clapper, Comey, and Rosenstein are accessories, if not primary suspects. Mueller has withheld exculpatory evidence, lied to several Federal officials, and wasted millions of dollars. Manafort was investigated for the exact crimes that Mueller is now accusing him of, and he was cleared of any wrong doing. In 2007. This is a witch hunt, and everyone involved could be charged with sedition.
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Post by redleg on May 7, 2018 22:14:08 GMT -5
Looks like Mueller has the authority he needs to investigate anything he finds connected to the charges that the Russians may have colluded with the Trump campaign in the election. From the letter of appointment from DAG Rosenstein: The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including: (i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a). (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters. If Rosenstein -- or anyone else -- knew what crimes had been committed, RJ, then you're right, there probably wouldn't be any need for a special prosecutor. But that's the point -- a point you never quite seem to get -- that the purpose of the special prosecutor and investigation is to determine if a crime was, in fact, committed, or at least if there is probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. You continue to put the cart before the horse, but that's what we've come to expect from you unthinking partisans who continue to repeat the party talking points. There were no crimes committed, which is why Mueller is resorting to making them up. The FBI agents that interviewed Flynn said he didn't lie to them, but Mueller bankrupted him to force him to "confess" to a crime he didn't commit. No, the purpose of a Special Prosecutor is to find out if someone committed a specified crime. Your local police can't simply decide to investigate you to decide if you committed a crime. They have to have evidence of a crime having been committed, and evidence that you committed it. What you describe is a witch hunt, or prior restraint, which is illegal under the Constitution. That means Mueller not only has no purview to investigate, he is illegally wasting taxpayer money to interfere with the operation of the Federal government.
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Post by Ranger John on May 8, 2018 6:18:09 GMT -5
Looks like Mueller has the authority he needs to investigate anything he finds connected to the charges that the Russians may have colluded with the Trump campaign in the election. From the letter of appointment from DAG Rosenstein: The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including: (i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a). (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters. If Rosenstein -- or anyone else -- knew what crimes had been committed, RJ, then you're right, there probably wouldn't be any need for a special prosecutor. But that's the point -- a point you never quite seem to get -- that the purpose of the special prosecutor and investigation is to determine if a crime was, in fact, committed, or at least if there is probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. You continue to put the cart before the horse, but that's what we've come to expect from you unthinking partisans who continue to repeat the party talking points. Which would be fine, if the charges against Manifort were related to Russian meddling in the election. They are not. They're related to things Manifort did several years before he became involved in the Trump campaign.
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Post by palealeman on May 8, 2018 17:38:27 GMT -5
Which comes under (ii) in the letter, RJ. I thought you'd be able to figure that out. Guess I gave you too much credit.
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Post by Ranger John on May 8, 2018 18:43:08 GMT -5
Which comes under (ii) in the letter, RJ. I thought you'd be able to figure that out. Guess I gave you too much credit. Really? Things that Manifort did BEFORE he ever met Trump arose out of an invesigation into Russian meddling in this election? Are you living in an alternate reality where time flows backwards?
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Post by palealeman on May 8, 2018 20:52:12 GMT -5
No, I actually think you're living in an alternate reality. Manifort gets investigated for his Russian contacts. That investigation leads to criminal activity. Doesn't matter when It's something that arises out of the investigation. Simple for most people to understand. We understand why you can't understand. Hope you join the real world some day soon.
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Post by Ranger John on May 8, 2018 21:46:27 GMT -5
No, I actually think you're living in an alternate reality. Manifort gets investigated for his Russian contacts. That investigation leads to criminal activity. Doesn't matter when It's something that arises out of the investigation. Simple for most people to understand. We understand why you can't understand. Hope you join the real world some day soon. Yours is a truly novel theory of this case. Manifort's attornies have asked Mueller's team to provide them with a detailed list of all of Manifort's contacts with Russian officials as is their right in discovery. Mueller's team apparently told them they have no record of any such contact. See the link in the second post at the top of this thread.
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Post by redleg on May 8, 2018 22:12:59 GMT -5
Which comes under (ii) in the letter, RJ. I thought you'd be able to figure that out. Guess I gave you too much credit. Which were investigated in 2007, and no evidence was found. Not to mention the fact that Mueller's entire "investigation" is illegal, both from the standpoint of needing a crime to initiate a Special Prosecutor, and from the standpoint that all of his warrants were based on faked "evidence". I think one of these victims should file criminal charges against Mueller for extortion under RICO, and make him produce everything he has, from any evidence that anything at all in the Trump "dossier" is verifyable, to every syllable uttered in any tapes illegally obtained from the spying on Trump's campaign. He should also be forced to explain why he's only looking at Trump and his associates, instead of including The Felon and her mafia crime family. After all, he's supposedly looking at "collusion", and he actually has evidence that The Felon was colluding.
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Post by redleg on May 8, 2018 22:15:17 GMT -5
No, I actually think you're living in an alternate reality. Manifort gets investigated for his Russian contacts. That investigation leads to criminal activity. Doesn't matter when It's something that arises out of the investigation. Simple for most people to understand. We understand why you can't understand. Hope you join the real world some day soon. No, it doesn't. Manafort was investigated in 2007 for the exact same things Mueller is now investigating him for. He was found to have no criminal activity. Period. So, Mueller is using his powers as Special Counsel to extort something, anything, from the lower echelons to try to get Trump. Again, if he's investigating "Russian collusion", why isn't he also investigating The Felon and her pond scum? He has actual evidence there.
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