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Post by Ranger John on Jun 27, 2018 11:41:34 GMT -5
CNNUnions will now have to get consent from workers before confiscating part of their paycheck in some states.
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Post by redleg on Jun 27, 2018 11:47:44 GMT -5
It's about time. The money laundering will be slowed down a bit, now.
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 27, 2018 12:55:38 GMT -5
Non-members should not get any of the benefits gained through collective bargaining... or representation... by the union... including the grievance procedure... they should be on their own... see what they get then... if they even have a job...
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Post by Ranger John on Jun 27, 2018 13:00:26 GMT -5
Non-members should not get any of the benefits gained through collective bargaining... or representation... by the union... including the grievance procedure... they should be on their own... see what they get then... if they even have a job... Why not just get the union to convince non-members that becoming members is a good investment? Rather than punishing your enemies, isnt it better to win them over? It seems to me the dramatic decline of private sector unions is a prime symptom of that "punish your enemies" mindset.
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Post by 3000fps on Jun 27, 2018 20:32:53 GMT -5
Non-members should not get any of the benefits gained through collective bargaining... or representation... by the union... including the grievance procedure... they should be on their own... see what they get then... if they even have a job... Why not just get the union to convince non-members that becoming members is a good investment? Rather than punishing your enemies, isnt it better to win them over? It seems to me the dramatic decline of private sector unions is a prime symptom of that "punish your enemies" mindset. Union goons should be OUT of gov't jobs, did they create them? In the civilian sector, the same applies unless they build their own power plants or whatever.
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 28, 2018 0:41:06 GMT -5
Why not just get the union to convince non-members that becoming members is a good investment? Rather than punishing your enemies, isnt it better to win them over? It seems to me the dramatic decline of private sector unions is a prime symptom of that "punish your enemies" mindset. Union goons should be OUT of gov't jobs, did they create them? In the civilian sector, the same applies unless they build their own power plants or whatever. We always touted the good investment... and the rapid decline in the private sector is partly because unions have done too good a job and members have become complacent... staying at home when meetings are being held... not getting involved... they got it made... so far...
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Post by 3000fps on Jun 28, 2018 1:19:37 GMT -5
Union goons should be OUT of gov't jobs, did they create them? In the civilian sector, the same applies unless they build their own power plants or whatever. We always touted the good investment... and the rapid decline in the private sector is partly because unions have done too good a job and members have become complacent... staying at home when meetings are being held... not getting involved... they got it made... so far... I see it differently, 100 years ago unions had a place, nowadays not so much with few exceptions. What have they done for Detroit lately other than ruin it?
The NFL is another perfect example of infringing on private businesses.
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Post by Ranger John on Jun 28, 2018 5:49:27 GMT -5
Union goons should be OUT of gov't jobs, did they create them? In the civilian sector, the same applies unless they build their own power plants or whatever. We always touted the good investment... and the rapid decline in the private sector is partly because unions have done too good a job and members have become complacent... staying at home when meetings are being held... not getting involved... they got it made... so far... There's a difference between saying union membership is a good investment, and actually being a good investment. People can tell when you're selling BS.
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Post by redleg on Jun 28, 2018 8:45:48 GMT -5
Non-members should not get any of the benefits gained through collective bargaining... or representation... by the union... including the grievance procedure... they should be on their own... see what they get then... if they even have a job... And the unions shouldn't be able to spend a penny of the dues being paid for political grandstanding, or buying Democrat pols. But of course, they will. Unions have become nothing but a money laundering machine for the Party of the KKK, especially the public unions. It's time for that to stop.
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 28, 2018 16:45:59 GMT -5
We always touted the good investment... and the rapid decline in the private sector is partly because unions have done too good a job and members have become complacent... staying at home when meetings are being held... not getting involved... they got it made... so far... I see it differently, 100 years ago unions had a place, nowadays not so much with few exceptions. What have they done for Detroit lately other than ruin it?
The NFL is another perfect example of infringing on private businesses.
Detroit is a fairly big town, 300fps... you can't blame all their problems on the unions... all big cities have bad parts of town... and my "winning" percentage on grievances tells me and many others that a non-union job is not where you'd be better off working... otherwise, that 99% would have been out looking for another job through no fault of their own... Don't quite understand what you mean with your reference to the NFL and private businesses... care to explain?...
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 28, 2018 16:47:16 GMT -5
We always touted the good investment... and the rapid decline in the private sector is partly because unions have done too good a job and members have become complacent... staying at home when meetings are being held... not getting involved... they got it made... so far... There's a difference between saying union membership is a good investment, and actually being a good investment. People can tell when you're selling BS. Was a great investment for me... I wouldn't be where I am today had it not been for the union...
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Post by Ranger John on Jun 28, 2018 16:49:56 GMT -5
There's a difference between saying union membership is a good investment, and actually being a good investment. People can tell when you're selling BS. Was a great investment for me... I wouldn't be where I am today had it not been for the union... Well yeah. You were working for the union. For most people, especially the government workers who can now have a fatter paycheck, it's just another drain on their wallet.
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 28, 2018 17:21:55 GMT -5
Non-members should not get any of the benefits gained through collective bargaining... or representation... by the union... including the grievance procedure... they should be on their own... see what they get then... if they even have a job... And the unions shouldn't be able to spend a penny of the dues being paid for political grandstanding, or buying Democrat pols. But of course, they will. Unions have become nothing but a money laundering machine for the Party of the KKK, especially the public unions. It's time for that to stop. It is a violation of federal law for union dues money to be contributed to political campaigns... but unions, just like any and all other businesses and groups, maintain the right to provide education and information that will be helpful to their members and the public in general with regard to political activities and candidates... were that not so, there would be no billboards along the nation's highways... Canada doesn't allow that...
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 28, 2018 17:24:53 GMT -5
Was a great investment for me... I wouldn't be where I am today had it not been for the union... Well yeah. You were working for the union. For most people, especially the government workers who can now have a fatter paycheck, it's just another drain on their wallet. The union never paid me a dime until after I retired... at which time, they wanted me to stay on in my position... to which I agreed for an additional three years... and got paid for three whole days a month... sure made my paycheck fatter...
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Post by Ranger John on Jun 28, 2018 17:34:42 GMT -5
Well yeah. You were working for the union. For most people, especially the government workers who can now have a fatter paycheck, it's just another drain on their wallet. The union never paid me a dime until after I retired... at which time, they wanted me to stay on in my position... to which I agreed for an additional three years... and got paid for three whole days a month... sure made my paycheck fatter... So wait... you did all that work for them, and they paid you nada? And you think that wasn't a drain on your paycheck?!? LMAO. This might be the worst case of Stockholm Syndrome I've ever heard of.
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Post by 3000fps on Jun 28, 2018 20:34:59 GMT -5
I see it differently, 100 years ago unions had a place, nowadays not so much with few exceptions. What have they done for Detroit lately other than ruin it?
The NFL is another perfect example of infringing on private businesses.
Detroit is a fairly big town, 300fps... you can't blame all their problems on the unions... all big cities have bad parts of town... and my "winning" percentage on grievances tells me and many others that a non-union job is not where you'd be better off working... otherwise, that 99% would have been out looking for another job through no fault of their own... Don't quite understand what you mean with your reference to the NFL and private businesses... care to explain?...
Most "normal" people caught red handed would have been too ashamed to even try and get their job back but not union trash.
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Post by redleg on Jun 28, 2018 21:10:50 GMT -5
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Post by 3000fps on Jun 28, 2018 21:33:25 GMT -5
Non-members should not get any of the benefits gained through collective bargaining... or representation... by the union... including the grievance procedure... they should be on their own... see what they get then... if they even have a job... Why not just get the union to convince non-members that becoming members is a good investment? Rather than punishing your enemies, isnt it better to win them over? It seems to me the dramatic decline of private sector unions is a prime symptom of that "punish your enemies" mindset. How about unions starting their OWN companies and pay their goons whatever they like. These companies are NOT the unions property to dictate rules, regs and pay. Can I go to a union goons house and demand what I want to do with their property?
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 29, 2018 1:09:59 GMT -5
The union never paid me a dime until after I retired... at which time, they wanted me to stay on in my position... to which I agreed for an additional three years... and got paid for three whole days a month... sure made my paycheck fatter... So wait... you did all that work for them, and they paid you nada? And you think that wasn't a drain on your paycheck?!? LMAO. This might be the worst case of Stockholm Syndrome I've ever heard of. No, it wasn't... and the knowledge gained was worth more than the $$$...
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 29, 2018 1:12:45 GMT -5
Detroit is a fairly big town, 300fps... you can't blame all their problems on the unions... all big cities have bad parts of town... and my "winning" percentage on grievances tells me and many others that a non-union job is not where you'd be better off working... otherwise, that 99% would have been out looking for another job through no fault of their own... Don't quite understand what you mean with your reference to the NFL and private businesses... care to explain?...
Most "normal" people caught red handed would have been too ashamed to even try and get their job back but not union trash.
I'm very familiar with Detroit... spent quite a bit of time there... especially when Coleman Young was mayor... I was actually on TV with President Jimmy Carter there in 1979 from Cobo Hall in downtown Detroit...
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 29, 2018 1:20:12 GMT -5
Outright lies, Redleg... that $$$ is not dues $$$... I don't care what these right wingers say... it is COPE $$$... and it is used only for things like educating the membership and the public... providing them with accurate information so they can make an informed decision... and to get out the vote... etc...
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Post by Ranger John on Jun 29, 2018 6:12:25 GMT -5
Why not just get the union to convince non-members that becoming members is a good investment? Rather than punishing your enemies, isnt it better to win them over? It seems to me the dramatic decline of private sector unions is a prime symptom of that "punish your enemies" mindset. How about unions starting their OWN companies and pay their goons whatever they like. These companies are NOT the unions property to dictate rules, regs and pay. Can I go to a union goons house and demand what I want to do with their property? The Constitution guarantees the right of free association. That includes workers. It's true that some unions have destroyed the corporations they organized against... then they lost their jobs. The issue is when they force people to associate who don't want to.
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 29, 2018 9:14:37 GMT -5
Why not just get the union to convince non-members that becoming members is a good investment? Rather than punishing your enemies, isnt it better to win them over? It seems to me the dramatic decline of private sector unions is a prime symptom of that "punish your enemies" mindset. How about unions starting their OWN companies and pay their goons whatever they like. These companies are NOT the unions property to dictate rules, regs and pay. Can I go to a union goons house and demand what I want to do with their property? 95%, maybe more, of these "union goons" are the workers themselves... the union has very few full time paid employees... my former union which covers 9 Southern states likely has less than 50 total full time paid employees... in state offices and in Atlanta... (I can get you an exact number if you want it)... my state of Mississippi had only 1 full time employee for the 40+ years that I was active... so, the people you are attacking, for the most part... are the represented employees... Me thinks that 95% of the people who complain so much about unions... don't know a hell of a lot about unions...
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Post by aboutwell on Jun 29, 2018 9:24:32 GMT -5
How about unions starting their OWN companies and pay their goons whatever they like. These companies are NOT the unions property to dictate rules, regs and pay. Can I go to a union goons house and demand what I want to do with their property? The Constitution guarantees the right of free association. That includes workers. It's true that some unions have destroyed the corporations they organized against... then they lost their jobs. The issue is when they force people to associate who don't want to. What has "free association" got to do with unions?... unions don't organize "against" corporations... they organize "with" corporations... they want the corporation to be better for the workers and the business... they know that is a corporation doesn't do well, it effects them... if it goes out of business, they no longer have jobs... unions don't "force" anyone to do anything... which is why membership activity is so low... most want to work and sit at home with their family... enjoy the wages and benefits that the union gains for them... and let someone else handle the union business for them... and there are usually good dedicated people who care enough about other people and are willing to sacrifice and do that... local union leaders seldom get an atta-boy... but their members sure love those benefits...
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Post by Ranger John on Jun 29, 2018 10:51:44 GMT -5
The Constitution guarantees the right of free association. That includes workers. It's true that some unions have destroyed the corporations they organized against... then they lost their jobs. The issue is when they force people to associate who don't want to. What has "free association" got to do with unions?... unions don't organize "against" corporations... they organize "with" corporations... they want the corporation to be better for the workers and the business... they know that is a corporation doesn't do well, it effects them... if it goes out of business, they no longer have jobs... unions don't "force" anyone to do anything... which is why membership activity is so low... most want to work and sit at home with their family... enjoy the wages and benefits that the union gains for them... and let someone else handle the union business for them... and there are usually good dedicated people who care enough about other people and are willing to sacrifice and do that... local union leaders seldom get an atta-boy... but their members sure love those benefits... Organizing is an example of free association. At it's core, a labor union is an association of workers that have gotten together and are doing as a group what can not be done by individuals. A lone teacher has very little power to demand a raise. If he associates with the other teachers in a school, who can organize a strike that shuts down the school, he has a much better shot at that raise. The Constitution protects his right to associate with his co-workers to accomplish their joint goal. Organizing a labor union is just another term for this. However, that association can not compel other teachers (physically or fiscally) to join with them. That's the "free" part of free association. Unions rarely know exactly the right amount of pressure to apply to the neck of the golden goose which lays their golden eggs. Getting back to the Detroit example, we're down to Ford and GM. Chrysler is owned by Fiat, and is in essence an Italian company now. AMC is gone (Jeep survived as part of Fiat, and AM General got absorbed by GM), as are DeSoto, Packard, Saturn, Checker, Delorian, Duesenberg, Eagle, and hundreds of other manufacturers who couldn't hack it. Management is to blame for some, but the UAW does not have clean hands either.
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