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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 16:56:14 GMT -5
Crimea has voted to join Russia. "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - V. Putin Yes, once again, the democratic system has worked.
<insert sarcasm icon here.>
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 16:57:41 GMT -5
Crimea has voted to join Russia. "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - V. Putin Once again, the democratic process has worked.
<insert sarcasm icon here>
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 16, 2014 17:12:48 GMT -5
now the trouble begins for nations and rebels who don't want this
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 17:53:29 GMT -5
now the trouble begins for nations and rebels who don't want this I don't see anything beginning here, RC, these issues have been going on in the Middle East for 5,000 years.
If it wasn't for the farking oil, today very few countries would be concerned with the region.
Just my opinion.
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Post by organgrinder on Mar 16, 2014 17:54:24 GMT -5
Crimea has voted to join Russia. "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." - V. Putin No different then in South Korea where Kim Jong-Un got 100% of the vote. I think that you meant North Korea. Quite a lot of difference really, the people of Crimea were only ever going to vote to be part of Russia.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 18:03:57 GMT -5
No different then in South Korea where Kim Jong-Un got 100% of the vote. I think that you meant North Korea. Quite a lot of difference really, the people of Crimea were only ever going to vote to be part of Russia. Oops my bad - yes North Korea.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 17, 2014 16:42:57 GMT -5
Ukraine crisis: U.S. rejects "bogus" secession vote in Crimea, citing Russian meddling "We reject the 'referendum' that took place today in the Crimean region of Ukraine," explained a statement from the White House on Sunday. "This referendum is contrary to Ukraine's constitution, and the international community will not recognize the results of a poll administered under threats of violence and intimidation from a Russian military intervention that violates international law." "In this century, we are long past the days when the international community will stand quietly by while one country forcibly seizes the territory of another," the statement added. www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-crisis-us-rejects-bogus-secession-vote-in-crimea-citing-russian-meddling/
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 17, 2014 16:49:16 GMT -5
The Obama administration and its European allies have not succeeded in preventing Russia from overtaking Crimea, a region of Ukraine. Now, the administration’s challenge is to keep the Russians from overtaking other regions of Ukraine, as they expand their military forces into other areas. President Obama has spoken with Russian President Vladimir V. Putin at least once a week during this crisis, the latest call had the White House stating that a referendum “would never be recognized by the United States and the international community” and that “we are prepared to impose additional costs on Russia for its actions.” www.webpronews.com/u-s-warns-russia-for-interference-in-ukraine-2014-03
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 17, 2014 18:39:23 GMT -5
Drawing more lines, Obama? How did that work out last time?
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 17, 2014 22:43:17 GMT -5
RUSSIA LAUGHS AT OBAMA 'SANCTIONS'; CALLS HIM 'PRANKSTER' abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/russian-deputy-pm-laughs-at-obamas-sanctions/****************************** Obama Says Putin Must Pull Back on Crimea Annexation President Barack Obama today imposed sanctions on seven top Russian government officials and four others from Ukraine and warned Russia will face more penalties if it doesn’t pull back from Crimea. “Continued Russian military intervention in Ukraine will only deepen Russia’s diplomatic isolation and exact a greater toll on the Russian economy,” Obama said at the White House. The U.S. can “calibrate our response” based on whether Russia chooses “to escalate or to de-escalate the situation.” www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-17/obama-imposes-sanctions-on-seven-top-russians-after-crimea-vote.html*********************************** State TV says Russia could turn US to 'radioactive ash' A leading anchor on Russian state television on Sunday described Russia as the only country capable of turning the United States into "radioactive ash", in an incendiary comment at the height of tensions over the Crimea referendum. "Russia is the only country in the world realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash," anchor Dmitry Kiselyov said on his weekly news show on state-controlled Rossiya 1 television. Kiselyov made the comment to support his argument that the United States and President Barack Obama were living in fear of Russia led by President Vladimir Putin amid the Ukraine crisis. His programme was broadcast as the first exit polls were being published showing an overwhelming majority of Crimeans voting to leave Ukraine and join Russia. He stood in his studio in front of a gigantic image of a mushroom cloud produced after a nuclear attack, with the words "into radioactive ash". news.yahoo.com/state-tv-says-russia-could-turn-us-radioactive-212003397.html
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Post by highmc2 on Mar 17, 2014 22:48:53 GMT -5
And the solution is...?
Ukraine/Crimea/Russia issue. Not US problem.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 17, 2014 22:52:27 GMT -5
And the solution is...? Ukraine/Crimea/Russia issue. Not US problem. guess what? it is now it seems
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Post by highmc2 on Mar 17, 2014 22:57:52 GMT -5
And the solution is...? Ukraine/Crimea/Russia issue. Not US problem. guess what? it is now it seems Not according to Rand Paul. As it should be. Not involving the US in entangling alliances. Free trade with all. The ideas of Jefferson.
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Post by Cuchulain on Mar 17, 2014 23:00:17 GMT -5
And the solution is...? Ukraine/Crimea/Russia issue. Not US problem. The poseur occupying the White House made it our problem. Now, what the Hell is he going to do about it? Based upon his past performance - "red lines" etc. - not a damned thing. The greatest and most powerful Nation on Earth, reduced in five years to a paper tiger. Shame on him and shame on the idiots who elected him not once but twice!
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Post by highmc2 on Mar 17, 2014 23:05:30 GMT -5
And the solution is...? Ukraine/Crimea/Russia issue. Not US problem. The poseur occupying the White House made it our problem. Now, what the Hell is he going to do about it? Based upon his past performance - "red lines" etc. - not a damned thing. The greatest and most powerful Nation on Earth, reduced in five years to a paper tiger. Shame on him and shame on the idiots who elected him not once but twice! BS, and McCain or Romney would not had done the same or worse. You want a non-interventionalist response...elect Paul or Johnson in 2012. Other then that, piss in a fan.
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Post by drjohnnyfever on Mar 17, 2014 23:38:08 GMT -5
guess what? it is now it seems Not according to Rand Paul. As it should be. Not involving the US in entangling alliances. Free trade with all. The ideas of Jefferson. Paul/Sanders 2016
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Post by Moses on Mar 17, 2014 23:55:15 GMT -5
Not according to Rand Paul. As it should be. Not involving the US in entangling alliances. Free trade with all. The ideas of Jefferson. Paul/Sanders 2016 Sanders/Paul
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2014 23:55:41 GMT -5
I agree with Rand Paul in principle, and if there's to be a conflict over Crimea, it's likely to be between Russia and Ukraine. But there was also a little incident in the Balkans 100 years ago that quickly spiraled out of control into the most horrific conflict the world had ever seen. I don't see that happening here, but as the alliance system, coupled with the imperial and economic interests of a century ago demonstrated, it's virtually impossible to be 100 percent neutral.
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Post by highmc2 on Mar 17, 2014 23:56:53 GMT -5
Not according to Rand Paul. As it should be. Not involving the US in entangling alliances. Free trade with all. The ideas of Jefferson. Paul/Sanders 2016 A great choice, except for the majority. A VT I is never going to pull enough votes from Hilarity. Unfortunately, Paul is going to have balance his non-status quo popularity with the status-quo. You know...those one-foot-in-the-grave GOP'ers that boo'ed his father in '08 & '12 in SC and FL.
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Post by highmc2 on Mar 18, 2014 0:39:17 GMT -5
Florida and Ohio are the key.
Penn is a toss-up.
Paul's supposed anti-Israel stance will hurt in FL. His anti-union perception will hurt in OH.
Even though the Pres has little effect on domestic issues, the masses will perceive him as anti-poor.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 18, 2014 13:43:36 GMT -5
Ukraine PM: Conflict entering 'military stage'... Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine's Western-backed prime minister said on Tuesday that his country's conflict with Russia was entering a "military stage" following claims by Kiev that one of its officers was shot and wounded in Crimea. "The conflict is shifting from a political to a military stage," Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk told an emergency government meeting. "Russian soldiers have started shooting at Ukrainian military servicemen, and that is a war crime." news.yahoo.com/conflict-russia-entering-military-stage-ukraine-pm-161159986.html;_ylt=AwrBEiQucihTh0gADgTQtDMD
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 18, 2014 17:42:22 GMT -5
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Post by kemmer on Mar 18, 2014 22:43:19 GMT -5
now the trouble begins for nations and rebels who don't want this I don't see anything beginning here, RC, these issues have been going on in the Middle East for 5,000 years.
If it wasn't for the farking oil, today very few countries would be concerned with the region.
Just my opinion.
This is off-topic, but I disagree. Absent oil money, we'd be over there giving aid to poor people so they could keep the large number of infants they produce alive. We would have brought them the modern life expectancy via medical advances-- just as we have with the oil money. The masses would STILL be poor and discontented. The "royals" would still rule as feudal lords. Their religious leaders would STILL be eager to bring about a world-wide caliphate. Nobody would have forgotten the "golden age" when they almost took over Europe, for Allah. And, then, there's Pakistan, Bangladesh, the fight over Kashmir with India, Chetchnya, the Muslim areas of China, the troubles in Burma, et al, et al. Oh, and the Suez Canal would still be there. That, right there, would maintain "first world" shipping interests in that region. Geography matters, with or without oil. Religion and culture matter, too, and the mid-East problem is mostly religious-- both "intra- and intermural".
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Post by kemmer on Mar 18, 2014 23:07:01 GMT -5
I agree with Rand Paul in principle, and if there's to be a conflict over Crimea, it's likely to be between Russia and Ukraine. But there was also a little incident in the Balkans 100 years ago that quickly spiraled out of control into the most horrific conflict the world had ever seen. I don't see that happening here, but as the alliance system, coupled with the imperial and economic interests of a century ago demonstrated, it's virtually impossible to be 100 percent neutral. Yes, that's a problem. Poor Ukraine. It seems to be a victim of geography, destined to always be conquered by somebody and never independent. (Russia wasn't their first conqueror, you know.) They really shouldn't have handed over their nukes, in exchange for the promise from "the world" that their borders would remain sacrosanct. I'm sure Putin's getting a chuckle out of THAT one! (See also: North Korea and Iran. Pakistan, too, for that matter, and India--and what weaponry everyone suspects Israel has.) Where does this lead? How in hell is Ukraine OUR problem? I don't think it is. The Ukrainians will have to decide whether to fight Russia or surrender. (It's probably too late for them to learn that electing kleptocrats isn't a good idea, since it's unlikely they'll ever get the stolen cash back into the treasury. But they do, now, have a lovely "museum to bad taste" in the fake rococo mansion their latest leader built for himself. That's pretty kewl, no?) Truth, I don't see what you, I, Obama, Merkel, or ANYONE can do to keep Ukraine independent. Perhaps they need to bring back their Cossacks?
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Post by middleoftheroad on Mar 19, 2014 15:29:37 GMT -5
I agree with Rand Paul in principle, and if there's to be a conflict over Crimea, it's likely to be between Russia and Ukraine. But there was also a little incident in the Balkans 100 years ago that quickly spiraled out of control into the most horrific conflict the world had ever seen. I don't see that happening here, but as the alliance system, coupled with the imperial and economic interests of a century ago demonstrated, it's virtually impossible to be 100 percent neutral. Yes, that's a problem. Poor Ukraine. It seems to be a victim of geography, destined to always be conquered by somebody and never independent. (Russia wasn't their first conqueror, you know.) They really shouldn't have handed over their nukes, in exchange for the promise from "the world" that their borders would remain sacrosanct. I'm sure Putin's getting a chuckle out of THAT one! (See also: North Korea and Iran. Pakistan, too, for that matter, and India--and what weaponry everyone suspects Israel has.) Where does this lead? How in hell is Ukraine OUR problem? I don't think it is. The Ukrainians will have to decide whether to fight Russia or surrender. (It's probably too late for them to learn that electing kleptocrats isn't a good idea, since it's unlikely they'll ever get the stolen cash back into the treasury. But they do, now, have a lovely "museum to bad taste" in the fake rococo mansion their latest leader built for himself. That's pretty kewl, no?) Truth, I don't see what you, I, Obama, Merkel, or ANYONE can do to keep Ukraine independent. Perhaps they need to bring back their Cossacks? Where does it lead is really the critical question kemmer. Is eastern Ukraine next, to the Dneiper? While keeping their warm water port on the Black Sea would be nice, two such ports, one in the Crimea and one in Georgia would be better. The Baltic States are, I bet, a little nervous with a Bear on the prowl. The funny part is, I agree that at least in the short term, US interests are not affected. But that is a VERY short term look and any sense that a resurgent Russia would not like to rebuild her sphere of influense is a mistake. I think the next few weeks need to be very carefully managed. What can be done to keep Ukraine independent? For the Crimea, likely nothing, but for the Ukraine, establishing a mutual defense treaty with Poland might be a good move. I think NATO needs to wake up, now, and step up force levels and readiness in eastern Poland. I think the Turks needs to be seen as becoming very good friends and more importantly, very visible friends of Georgia. I think the President needs to signal that he is not only expecting the Congress to change his defense budget to a higher number, he needs to indicate that he is ready to sign that higher number. I think he needs to get off his hands and approve Keystone - and any other project that puts energy supplies into the market place and reduces Russian influence in that area. I think he needs to get Russia out of the G8.
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