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Post by Cuchulain on Apr 20, 2014 23:30:53 GMT -5
There are records everywhere regarding the course of Slavery in this Nation from 1619 through the Emancipation and its aftermath. You say there are some good things about slavery - specify them, if you can. My addled brain can think of a single one. Just answer the question. My ancestors came here to escape bondage. I know all their names, when they came here, the ships they came on, and why they left their ancestral homeland. Give me some facts to support your claim that their are some good things about slavery, please. I await your response with bated breath. Like I said, I have found no book on the history of slavery divided into chapters and verses... and I have already named some good things... (you didn't like them, I guess)... and at least you recognize that your brain may be "addled"... maybe that's the problem here... You've found no book? Have you not read any of the numerous works on American History that chronicle the course of slavery in this Nation? Are you not aware of the Abolitionist movement or the Underground Railroad? Do you agree with the Dred Scott decision? "Chapter and verse" is a figure of speech. Do I have to explain its meaning to you? Apparently, I do. It means that I want specific facts to support your averment that there are some good things about slavery. You've named nothing about slavery that is good. My position is that slavery is intrinsically evil. You've dodged the question from the outset and have yet to give a substantive answer. I say Slavery is intrinsically Evil. I perceive no good associated with slavery. What say you?
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 20, 2014 23:59:42 GMT -5
Like I said, I have found no book on the history of slavery divided into chapters and verses... and I have already named some good things... (you didn't like them, I guess)... and at least you recognize that your brain may be "addled"... maybe that's the problem here... You've found no book? Have you not read any of the numerous works on American History that chronicle the course of slavery in this Nation? Are you not aware of the Abolitionist movement or the Underground Railroad? Do you agree with the Dred Scott decision? "Chapter and verse" is a figure of speech. Do I have to explain its meaning to you? Apparently, I do. It means that I want specific facts to support your averment that there are some good things about slavery. You've named nothing about slavery that is good. My position is that slavery is intrinsically evil. You've dodged the question from the outset and have yet to give a substantive answer. I say Slavery is intrinsically Evil. I perceive no good associated with slavery. What say you? I've likely read as much, or more, history on slavery as you have... and I have named you a couple of those things... but this is a thread about cattle and BLM property... not slavery... start another thread if you want to discuss slavery... I didn't side track it...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 7:16:16 GMT -5
You've found no book? Have you not read any of the numerous works on American History that chronicle the course of slavery in this Nation? Are you not aware of the Abolitionist movement or the Underground Railroad? Do you agree with the Dred Scott decision? "Chapter and verse" is a figure of speech. Do I have to explain its meaning to you? Apparently, I do. It means that I want specific facts to support your averment that there are some good things about slavery. You've named nothing about slavery that is good. My position is that slavery is intrinsically evil. You've dodged the question from the outset and have yet to give a substantive answer. I say Slavery is intrinsically Evil. I perceive no good associated with slavery. What say you? I've likely read as much, or more, history on slavery as you have... and I have named you a couple of those things... but this is a thread about cattle and BLM property... not slavery... start another thread if you want to discuss slavery... I didn't side track it... Wow. Just wow. You have it hear folks-- when asked if slavery is Evil-- Aboutwell avoids the question. It's a simple yes or no. Hotdiggity- do you believe slavery is evil? Hotdiggity- Yes, yes I do!! See how easy that is?? Slavery is an abomination-- and you can't say that?? Segregation wasn't a bad law, slavery was not evil.....Aboutwell, I'm certainly glad to let the left have you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 7:17:36 GMT -5
Like I said, I have found no book on the history of slavery divided into chapters and verses... and I have already named some good things... (you didn't like them, I guess)... and at least you recognize that your brain may be "addled"... maybe that's the problem here... You've found no book? Have you not read any of the numerous works on American History that chronicle the course of slavery in this Nation? Are you not aware of the Abolitionist movement or the Underground Railroad? Do you agree with the Dred Scott decision? "Chapter and verse" is a figure of speech. Do I have to explain its meaning to you? Apparently, I do. It means that I want specific facts to support your averment that there are some good things about slavery. You've named nothing about slavery that is good. My position is that slavery is intrinsically evil. You've dodged the question from the outset and have yet to give a substantive answer. I say Slavery is intrinsically Evil. I perceive no good associated with slavery. What say you? Jeez.....Cuchulain, you laid it out in a very clear yes-no question. I agree with you- slavery is evil. Aboutwell's dodge answers that question quite clearly.
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Post by rentedmule on Apr 21, 2014 7:59:33 GMT -5
You will never know will you since the Kings Land is not for sale.
And the "King's Land" is where?... and belongs to who?... The Kings Land is wherever citizens are denied the right to own property and denied the use of those resources. The Kings Land is where taxes are not paid so that honest men are burdened by the cost of their own sustenance plus the maintenance and upkeep of the sovereign's holdings.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 8:11:33 GMT -5
And the "King's Land" is where?... and belongs to who?... The Kings Land is wherever citizens are denied the right to own property and denied the use of those resources. The Kings Land is where taxes are not paid so that honest men are burdened by the cost of their own sustenance plus the maintenance and upkeep of the sovereign's holdings. Thanks... I was wondering since you mentioned it in response to a question I asked about property on my avatar picture... which is private land in extreme north central Montana...
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Post by Desert Cowboy on Apr 21, 2014 13:41:36 GMT -5
Why do we have to pay for grazing rights on land that is otherwise idle? How do the cattle "damage" or intefere with others' use of the land? Could it be that someone has a private agenda for the use of that "public" land? How does it happen that the great preponderance of land in the State of Nevada is "owned" by the U.S. Government? Of course, except for the casinos and whorehouses. Well, I guess I mis-speak - they're licensed by the State. Is there any private property in Nevada? Aside from Wayne Newton's estate? Have you ever been to the Overton area?... I have... hard to believe anyone would be in a dispute over anything outside the city... desolate for sure... but the land is owned and managed by the feds... and they have a right to charge a fee for it's use to be used for management of the land... Government has no rights. Government has authority (derived from the people). Only people have rights. This is how BLM 'managed' Bundy's cattle in one week. It's nothing short of sickening how eastern urbanites support tyranny. Attachments:
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 13:46:54 GMT -5
Dirty, ain't they?... shows how dirty and desolate that area is near Overton... at least they are burying them... all 40 or so that were killed out of over 900 for various reasons... some listed in my post above...
Nice track hoe...
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Post by The New Sheriff of Rock Ridge on Apr 21, 2014 14:00:40 GMT -5
Just think. All Bundy had to do to avoid this mess was to either pay the grazing fees or move his cattle somewhere else.
...and he had 20 years to do it.
What a stupid, stupid man.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 21, 2014 14:03:18 GMT -5
Just think. All Bundy had to do to avoid this mess was to either pay the grazing fees or move his cattle somewhere else. ...and he had 20 years to do it. What a stupid, stupid man. Not true, you seem to forget the fact that they were not letting him graze more than 150 head, that is the same essentially as saying you can't graze at all. Seems to me this isn't about fees at all. So where could he move these cattle? Hmmmm was there range available somewhere else? As for him being stupid, well he has gotten 20 years of living without fees, he might not be as dumb as some here wish him to be.
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Post by The New Sheriff of Rock Ridge on Apr 21, 2014 15:38:40 GMT -5
Just think. All Bundy had to do to avoid this mess was to either pay the grazing fees or move his cattle somewhere else. ...and he had 20 years to do it. What a stupid, stupid man. Not true, you seem to forget the fact that they were not letting him graze more than 150 head, that is the same essentially as saying you can't graze at all. Seems to me this isn't about fees at all. So where could he move these cattle? Hmmmm was there range available somewhere else? As for him being stupid, well he has gotten 20 years of living without fees, he might not be as dumb as some here wish him to be. It's not his land, so he has no right to have his cattle there without paying the fee. That's all there is to it. This thread can go in circles till eternity and it won't change the fact that Bundy has been freeloading and breaking the law, and as a result of his stubbornness and foolishness, he will end up losing everything that he probably intended to leave to his children. That doesn't seem very smart to me.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 21, 2014 16:01:00 GMT -5
Not true, you seem to forget the fact that they were not letting him graze more than 150 head, that is the same essentially as saying you can't graze at all. Seems to me this isn't about fees at all. So where could he move these cattle? Hmmmm was there range available somewhere else? As for him being stupid, well he has gotten 20 years of living without fees, he might not be as dumb as some here wish him to be. It's not his land, so he has no right to have his cattle there without paying the fee. That's all there is to it. This thread can go in circles till eternity and it won't change the fact that Bundy has been freeloading and breaking the law, and as a result of his stubbornness and foolishness, he will end up losing everything that he probably intended to leave to his children. That doesn't seem very smart to me. Well we don't know if he has it all mortgaged to the hilt now do we? I contend the land isn't "ours" either, but the people of the state of NV, and that the fees should be going to support NV, in that context he should be paying fees. Since the BLM has decided the do not want fees, or cattle messing up their tortoise habitats then it really isn't about the money, but control. I contend that NV and the people in that county should have a serious say in how the land is used, and who pays for that use. linkAs for tortoises, we have plenty down here in the part of AZ that I live on, what I find amusing is that it is illegal for me to move them off the road so that they do not get squashed.
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Post by kashmir on Apr 21, 2014 16:23:43 GMT -5
Have you ever been to the Overton area?... I have... hard to believe anyone would be in a dispute over anything outside the city... desolate for sure... but the land is owned and managed by the feds... and they have a right to charge a fee for it's use to be used for management of the land... Government has no rights. Government has authority (derived from the people). Only people have rights. This is how BLM 'managed' Bundy's cattle in one week. It's nothing short of sickening how eastern urbanites support tyranny. I guess he should have taken better care of his cattle. BTW Bundy has a legal fund going, give lots and often!!! Suckers!!!!
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 17:00:50 GMT -5
Just think. All Bundy had to do to avoid this mess was to either pay the grazing fees or move his cattle somewhere else. ...and he had 20 years to do it. What a stupid, stupid man. Not true, you seem to forget the fact that they were not letting him graze more than 150 head, that is the same essentially as saying you can't graze at all. Seems to me this isn't about fees at all. So where could he move these cattle? Hmmmm was there range available somewhere else? As for him being stupid, well he has gotten 20 years of living without fees, he might not be as dumb as some here wish him to be. Bundy has plenty of other grazing land... do you now how many MILES it is from his ranch to Gold Butte?...
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 21, 2014 17:03:21 GMT -5
Not true, you seem to forget the fact that they were not letting him graze more than 150 head, that is the same essentially as saying you can't graze at all. Seems to me this isn't about fees at all. So where could he move these cattle? Hmmmm was there range available somewhere else? As for him being stupid, well he has gotten 20 years of living without fees, he might not be as dumb as some here wish him to be. Bundy has plenty of other grazing land... do you now how many MILES it is from his ranch to Gold Butte?... This seems to be a statement of fact, so please supply a link. And why do I care how many MILES it is? Also with your link show that he has an allotment to use that land. Thank you.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 17:04:03 GMT -5
Just think. All Bundy had to do to avoid this mess was to either pay the grazing fees or move his cattle somewhere else. ...and he had 20 years to do it. What a stupid, stupid man. Bundy is gonna be on Hannity tonight... Hannity is on his side now... I listened to as much as I could stand... absolutely hilarious... Hannity even thinks Lauglin is 35 miles from Gold Butte... Tune in if you want a good laugh...
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 17:11:10 GMT -5
Bundy has plenty of other grazing land... do you now how many MILES it is from his ranch to Gold Butte?... This seems to be a statement of fact, so please supply a link. And why do I care how many MILES it is? Also with your link show that he has an allotment to use that land. Thank you. It's 46 miles... and Bundy's ranch is just south of Bunkerville on the Virgin River... private property... lot of land in between...
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 17:14:35 GMT -5
It's not his land, so he has no right to have his cattle there without paying the fee. That's all there is to it. This thread can go in circles till eternity and it won't change the fact that Bundy has been freeloading and breaking the law, and as a result of his stubbornness and foolishness, he will end up losing everything that he probably intended to leave to his children. That doesn't seem very smart to me. Well we don't know if he has it all mortgaged to the hilt now do we? I contend the land isn't "ours" either, but the people of the state of NV, and that the fees should be going to support NV, in that context he should be paying fees. Since the BLM has decided the do not want fees, or cattle messing up their tortoise habitats then it really isn't about the money, but control. I contend that NV and the people in that county should have a serious say in how the land is used, and who pays for that use. linkAs for tortoises, we have plenty down here in the part of AZ that I live on, what I find amusing is that it is illegal for me to move them off the road so that they do not get squashed. Nevada did buy the grazing rights several years ago... and exempted them... they didn't want cattle grazing on it at all... they contacted BLM and they agreed... Bundy tried to pay Nevada... they refused the $$$... I posted the letter earlier here...
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 21, 2014 17:25:50 GMT -5
Just think. All Bundy had to do to avoid this mess was to either pay the grazing fees or move his cattle somewhere else. ...and he had 20 years to do it. What a stupid, stupid man. Bundy is gonna be on Hannity tonight... Hannity is on his side now... I listened to as much as I could stand... absolutely hilarious... Hannity even thinks Lauglin is 35 miles from Gold Butte... Tune in if you want a good laugh... Do you have a link that shows your "statement" that Hannity thinks Laughlin is 35 miles from Gold Butte? Really your credibility isn't very high, and you don't help yourself with statements that you do not back up. Opinions are fine, but these are statements. You failed to supply a link to your statement that open range laws in NV have been repealed, come on step up or stop posting statements of fact.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 21, 2014 17:32:02 GMT -5
Well we don't know if he has it all mortgaged to the hilt now do we? I contend the land isn't "ours" either, but the people of the state of NV, and that the fees should be going to support NV, in that context he should be paying fees. Since the BLM has decided the do not want fees, or cattle messing up their tortoise habitats then it really isn't about the money, but control. I contend that NV and the people in that county should have a serious say in how the land is used, and who pays for that use. linkAs for tortoises, we have plenty down here in the part of AZ that I live on, what I find amusing is that it is illegal for me to move them off the road so that they do not get squashed. Nevada did buy the grazing rights several years ago... and exempted them... they didn't want cattle grazing on it at all... they contacted BLM and they agreed... Bundy tried to pay Nevada... they refused the $$$... I posted the letter earlier here... This statement means nothing, what grazing rights? Exempted them from what? Do you have a link? What does this have to do with your other statements, or statements made by me or others? Really you need to be clear, stop using your ... and fill in the blanks. Otherwise you are just wasting everyones time who tries to figure out what you are getting at.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 17:32:32 GMT -5
Bundy is gonna be on Hannity tonight... Hannity is on his side now... I listened to as much as I could stand... absolutely hilarious... Hannity even thinks Lauglin is 35 miles from Gold Butte... Tune in if you want a good laugh... Do you have a link that shows your "statement" that Hannity thinks Laughlin is 35 miles from Gold Butte? Really your credibility isn't very high, and you don't help yourself with statements that you do not back up. Opinions are fine, but these are statements. You failed to supply a link to your statement that open range laws in NV have been repealed, come on step up or stop posting statements of fact. I posted a portion of the "Range Laws - Nevada" and told you where to go tho read the rest... and Hannity said it on his radio show between 3M and 4PM (CT) today... I think the show can be heard on the internet... he was in a conversation with some lady from Nevada talking about the solar project planned by the Chinese company... which is at Laughlin... (they were really funny)... and he asked did they get an exemption... said it was only 30-35 miles from the property in question...
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 21, 2014 17:34:06 GMT -5
This seems to be a statement of fact, so please supply a link. And why do I care how many MILES it is? Also with your link show that he has an allotment to use that land. Thank you. It's 46 miles... and Bundy's ranch is just south of Bunkerville on the Virgin River... private property... lot of land in between... So again what does this have to do with anything? What is in the ... that you leave out? Do you have a link showing that Bundy could graze his cattle on this land? Does it have water? Really you are not helping your credibility by vague non sequiturs.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 17:35:10 GMT -5
Do you have a link that shows your "statement" that Hannity thinks Laughlin is 35 miles from Gold Butte? Really your credibility isn't very high, and you don't help yourself with statements that you do not back up. Opinions are fine, but these are statements. You failed to supply a link to your statement that open range laws in NV have been repealed, come on step up or stop posting statements of fact. I posted a portion of the "Range Laws - Nevada" and told you where to go tho read the rest... and Hannity said it on his radio show between 3M and 4PM (CT) today... I think the show can be heard on the internet... he was in a conversation with some lady from Nevada talking about the solar project planned by the Chinese company... which is at Laughlin... (they were really funny)... and he asked did they get an exemption... said it was only 30-35 miles from the property in question... I might as well stop posting any links... you guys don't seem to read them when I do... the answers to your questions are in links that I have already posted... now I suppose you'll want me to tell you which one...
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Apr 21, 2014 17:35:26 GMT -5
Do you have a link that shows your "statement" that Hannity thinks Laughlin is 35 miles from Gold Butte? Really your credibility isn't very high, and you don't help yourself with statements that you do not back up. Opinions are fine, but these are statements. You failed to supply a link to your statement that open range laws in NV have been repealed, come on step up or stop posting statements of fact. I posted a portion of the "Range Laws - Nevada" and told you where to go tho read the rest... and Hannity said it on his radio show between 3M and 4PM (CT) today... I think the show can be heard on the internet... he was in a conversation with some lady from Nevada talking about the solar project planned by the Chinese company... which is at Laughlin... (they were really funny)... and he asked did they get an exemption... said it was only 30-35 miles from the property in question... You didn't supply a link, and the portion you posted didn't support your statement, so a total fail. With no link supporting your Hannity statement we just have to take your word for it, and frankly you don't rate that high.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 21, 2014 17:36:26 GMT -5
It's 46 miles... and Bundy's ranch is just south of Bunkerville on the Virgin River... private property... lot of land in between... So again what does this have to do with anything? What is in the ... that you leave out? Do you have a link showing that Bundy could graze his cattle on this land? Does it have water? Really you are not helping your credibility by vague non sequiturs. As you should know... ".." doesn't mean I left anything out...
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