|
Post by middleoftheroad on Jul 29, 2014 20:28:20 GMT -5
You're never going to have a democracy if you have significant religious involvement in government; democracy and theocracy are incompatible. The Arabs lost that war. When you lose a war, you often lose land. Their answer is to lob rockets into Israel, hoping to intimidate her into giving them back what they strangely think is still theirs. The United States should simply cut off all aid to any nation in that area of the world, and let whatever happens, happen. Cutting off aid to both sides is tantamount to saying there is no difference between the two sides. Do you think there is no difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians? vosa raises a good point. In addition, just having the US cut off dollars into the ME doesn't solve the problem. All funds from all states to all states have to be cut off, for all materials, else one side would gain an existential difference over the other. Be careful what you wish for when you take that position however. BE advises had no funds been made available, there would either be a two state solution or no Israel. I would argue had the rest of the world not been involved, there would be no Gaza Strip, nor a Syria, nor a Lebanon; there would be Israel, a Jordanian puppet, an Egyptian partner and a very pacified Saudi.
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 29, 2014 20:40:07 GMT -5
I don't judge people by what they produce. Cut them off but it could get ugly Of course it would get ugly. It's not going to happen, either, because Israel has a lot of friends over here. Neither political party has ever seriously considered cutting her off. Israel produces pharmaceuticals (not all of them legal), software, scientific achievement. What do the Palestinians offer the world? The occasional rocket lobbed at their neighbor? You might not judge people but what they produce, but you'd be in a minority.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 23:09:36 GMT -5
Interesting take, so Israel is supposed to absorb Palestinians into their own country? What about the leaders of the Palestinians who say they will destroy Israel, and kill all the Jews? Don't they have a say in all of this? If the Palestinians do not want to live under military rule then they just need to stop attacking Israel, quite simple really. I think You assess things wrong. You mention the Palestinian leaders as if you know all of them and that they all say that. I looked it up on the Internet there is a ton of opinions out there that disagrees with your assessment. They do not seem to blame only the Palestinians, as a matter fact they act as if the Palestinians have some righteous grievances. You don't want to see them.Basically, your assessments are putting blinders on you. I see both sides. Personally if I had my way, I would prefer the more modern Israel influence to spread to the Middle East. I have no more patience for religious fanatics then you probably do. But that's another issue. What did the Gaza Palestinians do after Israel granted them an independent territory? They elected Hamas. Instead of turning Gaza into a modern state with attendant political and economic institutions, the Palestinians have transformed it into a de facto military base.
Who are the religious fanatics here? Hamas. (They are, after all, the Palestinian arm of the Muslim Brotherhood.) Who opposed the recently proposed ceasefire in Gaza? Hamas. And this was a deal brokered by Egypt which had the backing of the Arab League. If the Gaza Palestinians are truly the aggrieved party, then why won't they accept peace? That's a pretty tough position to sell. Rather than positing that other posters are wearing blinders, it would be wise to take into consideration the deadly cynicism of Hamas against any alleged brutality on the part of Israel.
|
|
|
Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 8:51:35 GMT -5
The US has had far more to do with the feck-up in the ME than all the rest of the world put together. It has supplied and enabled the cancer that is Israel. It cracks me up when I hear Americans bleat, "why does everyone hate us". Er, how fecking stupid can some idiots be? "Cancer that is Israel"? When has Israel sent suicide bombers anywhere to kill civilians? When has Israel demanded the death of an entire people? Israel took bare desert and, with God in control, made it bloom. The "Palestinians" have done nothing but build ways to kill Jews and their own people, and live in squalor by their own choice.
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 30, 2014 10:28:12 GMT -5
I think You assess things wrong. You mention the Palestinian leaders as if you know all of them and that they all say that. I looked it up on the Internet there is a ton of opinions out there that disagrees with your assessment. They do not seem to blame only the Palestinians, as a matter fact they act as if the Palestinians have some righteous grievances. You don't want to see them.Basically, your assessments are putting blinders on you. I see both sides. Personally if I had my way, I would prefer the more modern Israel influence to spread to the Middle East. I have no more patience for religious fanatics then you probably do. But that's another issue. What did the Gaza Palestinians do after Israel granted them an independent territory? They elected Hamas. Instead of turning Gaza into a modern state with attendant political and economic institutions, the Palestinians have transformed it into a de facto military base.
Who are the religious fanatics here? Hamas. (They are, after all, the Palestinian arm of the Muslim Brotherhood.) Who opposed the recently proposed ceasefire in Gaza? Hamas. And this was a deal brokered by Egypt which had the backing of the Arab League. If the Gaza Palestinians are truly the aggrieved party, then why won't they accept peace? That's a pretty tough position to sell. Rather than positing that other posters are wearing blinders, it would be wise to take into consideration the deadly cynicism of Hamas against any alleged brutality on the part of Israel.
So you disagree with those authors also. Why should I take your account over theirs ?
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 30, 2014 10:28:53 GMT -5
The US has had far more to do with the feck-up in the ME than all the rest of the world put together. It has supplied and enabled the cancer that is Israel. It cracks me up when I hear Americans bleat, "why does everyone hate us". Er, how fecking stupid can some idiots be? "Cancer that is Israel"? When has Israel sent suicide bombers anywhere to kill civilians? When has Israel demanded the death of an entire people? Israel took bare desert and, with God in control, made it bloom. The "Palestinians" have done nothing but build ways to kill Jews and their own people, and live in squalor by their own choice. Good lord.
|
|
|
Post by vosa on Jul 30, 2014 12:19:02 GMT -5
Cutting off aid to both sides is tantamount to saying there is no difference between the two sides. Do you think there is no difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians? Does it matter than there is a difference? Do we need to pay our tax dollars for every country out there, they don't even vote our way in the UN. Frankly I would want better bang for our bucks. Cutting off aid to both sides is tantamount to saying there is no difference between the two sides. Do you think there is no difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians? No, there's a difference. The Israelis produce much of value, the Palestinians little or nothing of value. But I don't agree with your axiom. Another way to interpret it is this: I'm tired of them being unable to resolve their problems peacefully, and doubly tired of my tax dollars enabling their jumped-up schoolyard squabble. Cut them off and let them sort it out. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
- Edmund Burke
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 30, 2014 12:33:06 GMT -5
Does it matter than there is a difference? Do we need to pay our tax dollars for every country out there, they don't even vote our way in the UN. Frankly I would want better bang for our bucks. No, there's a difference. The Israelis produce much of value, the Palestinians little or nothing of value. But I don't agree with your axiom. Another way to interpret it is this: I'm tired of them being unable to resolve their problems peacefully, and doubly tired of my tax dollars enabling their jumped-up schoolyard squabble. Cut them off and let them sort it out. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
- Edmund Burke The evil is the war So far, bad men have been doing "something"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 13:37:00 GMT -5
The US has had far more to do with the feck-up in the ME than all the rest of the world put together. It has supplied and enabled the cancer that is Israel. It cracks me up when I hear Americans bleat, "why does everyone hate us". Er, how fecking stupid can some idiots be? "Cancer that is Israel"? When has Israel sent suicide bombers anywhere to kill civilians? When has Israel demanded the death of an entire people? Israel took bare desert and, with God in control, made it bloom. The "Palestinians" have done nothing but build ways to kill Jews and their own people, and live in squalor by their own choice. Yep, Israel is a cancer. What sort of uneducated ignorant people belive that the people of Gaza have a choice to not "live in squalor? You have a choice to be educated and better informed, and the means to do it, the factb that you waste that ability is a far greater sin than theirs.
|
|
|
Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 30, 2014 13:47:36 GMT -5
"Cancer that is Israel"? When has Israel sent suicide bombers anywhere to kill civilians? When has Israel demanded the death of an entire people? Israel took bare desert and, with God in control, made it bloom. The "Palestinians" have done nothing but build ways to kill Jews and their own people, and live in squalor by their own choice. Yep, Israel is a cancer. What sort of uneducated ignorant people belive that the people of Gaza have a choice to not "live in squalor? You have a choice to be educated and better informed, and the means to do it, the factb that you waste that ability is a far greater sin than theirs. So the millions of dollars/EU's that are being sent to Gaza are not helping to get them out of squalor? Or the greenhouses left by the Israelis that were trashed by the Palestinians were not to help, or the tons of concrete that was given to them? No I would say that it is their own fault they live in squalor.
|
|
|
Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 30, 2014 13:48:06 GMT -5
How much do thousands of missiles cost?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 13:49:36 GMT -5
Yep, Israel is a cancer. What sort of uneducated ignorant people belive that the people of Gaza have a choice to not "live in squalor? You have a choice to be educated and better informed, and the means to do it, the factb that you waste that ability is a far greater sin than theirs. So the millions of dollars/EU's that are being sent to Gaza are not helping to get them out of squalor? Or the greenhouses left by the Israelis that were trashed by the Palestinians were not to help, or the tons of concrete that was given to them? No I would say that it is their own fault they live in squalor. You sir, seriously need to change your reading matter. SMDH.
|
|
|
Post by vosa on Jul 30, 2014 14:03:33 GMT -5
"Cancer that is Israel"? When has Israel sent suicide bombers anywhere to kill civilians? When has Israel demanded the death of an entire people? Israel took bare desert and, with God in control, made it bloom. The "Palestinians" have done nothing but build ways to kill Jews and their own people, and live in squalor by their own choice. Yep, Israel is a cancer.What sort of uneducated ignorant people belive that the people of Gaza have a choice to not "live in squalor? You have a choice to be educated and better informed, and the means to do it, the factb that you waste that ability is a far greater sin than theirs. And I'm sure were they capable Hamas would deliver massive doses of radiation therapy and chemotherapy.
|
|
|
Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 30, 2014 14:52:42 GMT -5
So the millions of dollars/EU's that are being sent to Gaza are not helping to get them out of squalor? Or the greenhouses left by the Israelis that were trashed by the Palestinians were not to help, or the tons of concrete that was given to them? No I would say that it is their own fault they live in squalor. You sir, seriously need to change your reading matter. SMDH. So what is incorrect? Do they get millions of dollars? Do they spend it on missiles, and tunnels? Did they destroy the green houses? Please inform us oh unbiased one.
|
|
|
Post by stevez51 on Jul 30, 2014 14:58:58 GMT -5
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
- Edmund Burke The evil is the war So far, bad men have been doing "something" Yes firing rockets at each other. So your response would be, stop that or I will get very angry ...
|
|
|
Post by stevez51 on Jul 30, 2014 15:01:59 GMT -5
You sir, seriously need to change your reading matter. SMDH. So what is incorrect? Do they get millions of dollars? Do they spend it on missiles, and tunnels? Did they destroy the green houses? Please inform us oh unbiased one. His is written on toilet paper ....
|
|
|
Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 19:25:21 GMT -5
"Cancer that is Israel"? When has Israel sent suicide bombers anywhere to kill civilians? When has Israel demanded the death of an entire people? Israel took bare desert and, with God in control, made it bloom. The "Palestinians" have done nothing but build ways to kill Jews and their own people, and live in squalor by their own choice. Yep, Israel is a cancer. What sort of uneducated ignorant people belive that the people of Gaza have a choice to not "live in squalor? You have a choice to be educated and better informed, and the means to do it, the factb that you waste that ability is a far greater sin than theirs. Actually, the uneducated support the "Palestinians", because you all believe that it's always "someone else's responsibility", or "someone else's fault" when bad things happen. You think that it's the Israeli's responsibility to make sure that the animals calling themselves "Palestinians" learn civilization, hygiene, and gain intelligence. It's not. Israel conquered Gaza after being attacked, 3 times, by Arabs. Under pressure from serfs and the neoNAZIs, they gave it back to the "Palestinians". The "Palestinians" built nothing, improved nothing, and accomplished nothing, except to build tunnels to invade Israel, buy rockets to shoot at Israel, and send in suicide bombers to kill civilian Israelis. They eat only because Israel doesn't want to see them starve.
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 30, 2014 19:45:21 GMT -5
Yep, Israel is a cancer. What sort of uneducated ignorant people belive that the people of Gaza have a choice to not "live in squalor? You have a choice to be educated and better informed, and the means to do it, the factb that you waste that ability is a far greater sin than theirs. Actually, the uneducated support the "Palestinians", because you all believe that it's always "someone else's responsibility", or "someone else's fault" when bad things happen. You think that it's the Israeli's responsibility to make sure that the animals calling themselves "Palestinians" learn civilization, hygiene, and gain intelligence. It's not. Israel conquered Gaza after being attacked, 3 times, by Arabs. Under pressure from serfs and the neoNAZIs, they gave it back to the "Palestinians". The "Palestinians" built nothing, improved nothing, and accomplished nothing, except to build tunnels to invade Israel, buy rockets to shoot at Israel, and send in suicide bombers to kill civilian Israelis. They eat only because Israel doesn't want to see them starve. Feel better?
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 30, 2014 19:45:48 GMT -5
So what is incorrect? Do they get millions of dollars? Do they spend it on missiles, and tunnels? Did they destroy the green houses? Please inform us oh unbiased one. His is written on toilet paper .... :/
|
|
|
Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 20:03:43 GMT -5
Actually, the uneducated support the "Palestinians", because you all believe that it's always "someone else's responsibility", or "someone else's fault" when bad things happen. You think that it's the Israeli's responsibility to make sure that the animals calling themselves "Palestinians" learn civilization, hygiene, and gain intelligence. It's not. Israel conquered Gaza after being attacked, 3 times, by Arabs. Under pressure from serfs and the neoNAZIs, they gave it back to the "Palestinians". The "Palestinians" built nothing, improved nothing, and accomplished nothing, except to build tunnels to invade Israel, buy rockets to shoot at Israel, and send in suicide bombers to kill civilian Israelis. They eat only because Israel doesn't want to see them starve. Feel better? Why would I feel better? We still have far too many serfs, that actually believe that Hamas firing rockets at Israel from schools, hospitals, housing areas, anywhere that retaliation would cause civilian casualties, is Israel's fault.
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 30, 2014 21:03:33 GMT -5
Feel better? Why would I feel better? We still have far too many serfs, that actually believe that Hamas firing rockets at Israel from schools, hospitals, housing areas, anywhere that retaliation would cause civilian casualties, is Israel's fault. We hate serfs
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 30, 2014 21:53:38 GMT -5
The sad truth is that Arab culture has been in decline for centuries. I suspect they understand this, and it's at leas part of what makes them so angry so much of the time. I would guess it started around the time Islam started.
|
|
|
Post by aponderer on Jul 31, 2014 7:52:58 GMT -5
The US has had far more to do with the feck-up in the ME than all the rest of the world put together. It has supplied and enabled the cancer that is Israel. It cracks me up when I hear Americans bleat, "why does everyone hate us". Er, how fecking stupid can some idiots be? So now it is all of Israel. You claimed you only hated Zionists but you didn't fool me.
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 31, 2014 9:25:47 GMT -5
The sad truth is that Arab culture has been in decline for centuries. I suspect they understand this, and it's at leas part of what makes them so angry so much of the time. I would guess it started around the time Islam started. We kill more of them than they kill us. Does that make us more angry than them, or just better at killing?
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jul 31, 2014 9:27:20 GMT -5
The US has had far more to do with the feck-up in the ME than all the rest of the world put together. It has supplied and enabled the cancer that is Israel. It cracks me up when I hear Americans bleat, "why does everyone hate us". Er, how fecking stupid can some idiots be? So now it is all of Israel. You claimed you only hated Zionists but you didn't fool me. Aha! A eureka moment for you!
|
|