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Post by aboutwell on Apr 6, 2015 11:48:56 GMT -5
Bill Clinton had to raise taxes to get the country out of the financial mess Ronald Reagan and George H W Bush had left it in... and as a result, he produced the first balanced budget since the one Jimmy Carter proposed in 1980... and the one that Richard Nixon actually had in 1969... Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do in order to overcome the damage done by those who came before you... You mean like Reagan did to repair the damage of Carter's disasters? And Clinton did it on the backs of the military. Remember the "peace dividend"? Wonder why he had to raise taxes, when he was getting so much back from gutting the military. Again? And he left Bush with a recession to deal with, as well as a war that he was too busy banging interns to bother with. There were no Carter disasters... there were disasters caused by OPEC... raising oil prices from $3 to $37 per barrel... and Carter couldn't do a damned thing about it... wrecked the economy and caused inflation and interest rated to hit the ceiling... still nothing much he could have done other than ride it out and take the blame... Reagan was the real disaster... and Bush I started the military downsizing which you incorrectly attributed to Clinton... Clinton just couldn't, or didn't, stop it... because the war in Vietnam was over and we were well above strength at the time... which is why Bush I came up with the so-called "Peace Dividend"...
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Post by aponderer on Apr 6, 2015 11:49:05 GMT -5
No, I missed that one. So did Aponderer... till I gave him cause to look for something... "Intrinsic Value" in progress... I caught the "e" immediately... I think EY was referring to your "ETIC"... Come to think of it. "ETIC" would probably make more sense with "TIC" meaning Tax Income Credit (i.e., getting income from taxes). Except there's that pesky "E" which means Earned...
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Post by aponderer on Apr 6, 2015 11:58:56 GMT -5
You mean like Reagan did to repair the damage of Carter's disasters? And Clinton did it on the backs of the military. Remember the "peace dividend"? Wonder why he had to raise taxes, when he was getting so much back from gutting the military. Again? And he left Bush with a recession to deal with, as well as a war that he was too busy banging interns to bother with. There were no Carter disasters... there were disasters caused by OPEC... raising oil prices from $3 to $37 per barrel... and Carter couldn't do a damned thing about it... wrecked the economy and caused inflation and interest rated to hit the ceiling... still nothing much he could have done other than ride it out and take the blame... Reagan was the real disaster... and Bush I started the military downsizing which you incorrectly attributed to Clinton... Clinton just couldn't, or didn't, stop it... because the war in Vietnam was over and we were well above strength at the time... Clinton also cut back drastically on the intelligence services. I know people involved in intelligence and they are pretty bitter how Clinton gutted them, leaving the US more vulnerable. Carter's disaster was his inability to free the hostages (not to mention letting the Shah come to the U.S. after being deposed--the real reason for the hostage crises). It's quite a coincidence how the hostages were freed within hours after Reagan's inaugural address...
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Post by rentedmule on Apr 6, 2015 12:27:41 GMT -5
You mean like Reagan did to repair the damage of Carter's disasters? And Clinton did it on the backs of the military. Remember the "peace dividend"? Wonder why he had to raise taxes, when he was getting so much back from gutting the military. Again? And he left Bush with a recession to deal with, as well as a war that he was too busy banging interns to bother with. There were no Carter disasters... there were disasters caused by OPEC... raising oil prices from $3 to $37 per barrel... and Carter couldn't do a damned thing about it... wrecked the economy and caused inflation and interest rated to hit the ceiling... still nothing much he could have done other than ride it out and take the blame... Reagan was the real disaster... and Bush I started the military downsizing which you incorrectly attributed to Clinton... Clinton just couldn't, or didn't, stop it... because the war in Vietnam was over and we were well above strength at the time... which is why Bush I came up with the so-called "Peace Dividend"... As a bit of a Carter fan I must comment! - the oil jump was not OPEC. If one is a partisan one could mostly "blame" Nixon. Nation states were no longer bound by the gold exchange mechanism and of course as a reserve currency, the US gave central bankers worldwide the opportunity to go ahead to use their creativity to manipulate their currency regardless of trade balances. Carter did make a wonderful decision by appointing Volker to the Fed chair - although he could do nothing to salvage the gold standards he did understand how a central bank should function and almost singlehandedly salvaged our moribund economy and saved the disgrace of the Keynesians and the monetarists! Oddly, Reagan gets "credit" for restoring interest rates to "normal" and ending stagflation, but it was mostly Volker (although Reagan was savvy enough to cooperate with him and tough out the 18% interest rates. That was a brave thing for him to do! - Carter again gets "blamed" for the hostage situation. But he did not install the Shah nor is he responsible for an inept military incapable of transporting themselves, much less executing a rescue. The military "downsizing" has been a buzzword for years! In the 1950's it was called the Eisenhower Minimum. Does the budget do anything but grow?
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 6, 2015 13:37:07 GMT -5
There were no Carter disasters... there were disasters caused by OPEC... raising oil prices from $3 to $37 per barrel... and Carter couldn't do a damned thing about it... wrecked the economy and caused inflation and interest rated to hit the ceiling... still nothing much he could have done other than ride it out and take the blame... Reagan was the real disaster... and Bush I started the military downsizing which you incorrectly attributed to Clinton... Clinton just couldn't, or didn't, stop it... because the war in Vietnam was over and we were well above strength at the time... Clinton also cut back drastically on the intelligence services. I know people involved in intelligence and they are pretty bitter how Clinton gutted them, leaving the US more vulnerable. Carter's disaster was his inability to free the hostages (not to mention letting the Shah come to the U.S. after being deposed--the real reason for the hostage crises). It's quite a coincidence how the hostages were freed within hours after Reagan's inaugural address... The hostages were freed BEFORE Ronald Reagan took the oath of office... not hours after... and the Reagan/Bush team worked very hard during the campaign to keep the hostages held hostage until they just couldn't do it any more... Carter made the final deal to complete the release... And as for those intelligence people you know being bitter at Clinton... it's always bad when someone loses their job... but that doesn't necessarily mean that the work doesn't go on just as well as it did... my former company downsized from about 650 in my little town to less than 2 dozen while I was there... the work same work still goes on... I don't hold being a humanitarian against Jimmy Carter... we'd do well to have more like him...
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Post by aponderer on Apr 6, 2015 19:26:43 GMT -5
Clinton also cut back drastically on the intelligence services. I know people involved in intelligence and they are pretty bitter how Clinton gutted them, leaving the US more vulnerable. Carter's disaster was his inability to free the hostages (not to mention letting the Shah come to the U.S. after being deposed--the real reason for the hostage crises). It's quite a coincidence how the hostages were freed within hours after Reagan's inaugural address... The hostages were freed BEFORE Ronald Reagan took the oath of office... not hours after... and the Reagan/Bush team worked very hard during the campaign to keep the hostages held hostage until they just couldn't do it any more... Carter made the final deal to complete the release... And as for those intelligence people you know being bitter at Clinton... it's always bad when someone loses their job... but that doesn't necessarily mean that the work doesn't go on just as well as it did... my former company downsized from about 650 in my little town to less than 2 dozen while I was there... the work same work still goes on... I don't hold being a humanitarian against Jimmy Carter... we'd do well to have more like him... Where did you get your information that the hostages were freed before Reagan took the oath of office?
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Post by palealeman on Apr 6, 2015 21:29:27 GMT -5
I just found it on the History Channel site. Hostages released Jan. 21, just hours after Reagan was sworn in.
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Post by redleg on Apr 6, 2015 23:10:59 GMT -5
You mean like Reagan did to repair the damage of Carter's disasters? And Clinton did it on the backs of the military. Remember the "peace dividend"? Wonder why he had to raise taxes, when he was getting so much back from gutting the military. Again? And he left Bush with a recession to deal with, as well as a war that he was too busy banging interns to bother with. There were no Carter disasters... there were disasters caused by OPEC... raising oil prices from $3 to $37 per barrel... and Carter couldn't do a damned thing about it... wrecked the economy and caused inflation and interest rated to hit the ceiling... still nothing much he could have done other than ride it out and take the blame... Reagan was the real disaster... and Bush I started the military downsizing which you incorrectly attributed to Clinton... Clinton just couldn't, or didn't, stop it... because the war in Vietnam was over and we were well above strength at the time... which is why Bush I came up with the so-called "Peace Dividend"... Carter was a disaster from the day he took office, just like The Puppet has been. Double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, a failing economy, no respect on the world stage, all just like The Puppet. And for the same reasons. They both actually believe their fantasies of utopia and kum bay ya will actually work in the real world. Although, I don't think The Puppet understands that there IS a real world. And Clinton was the one that declared the "peace dividend", and gutted the military. He took the downsizing that Bush I started and put it on steroids. Then invaded the Balkans to keep his pederasty off the front pages of the news.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 6, 2015 23:23:09 GMT -5
I just found it on the History Channel site. Hostages released Jan. 21, just hours after Reagan was sworn in. The hostages were on one of three planes on the end of the airport runway at 8:45AM when Carter left the White House for the inauguration ceremonies... January 20... all the deals had been made for the release and the planes left Iranian airspace soon after that... On Jan. 20, 1981, Iran released 52 Americans who had been held hostage for 444 days, minutes after the presidency had passed from Jimmy Carter to Ronald Reagan.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 6, 2015 23:25:40 GMT -5
There were no Carter disasters... there were disasters caused by OPEC... raising oil prices from $3 to $37 per barrel... and Carter couldn't do a damned thing about it... wrecked the economy and caused inflation and interest rated to hit the ceiling... still nothing much he could have done other than ride it out and take the blame... Reagan was the real disaster... and Bush I started the military downsizing which you incorrectly attributed to Clinton... Clinton just couldn't, or didn't, stop it... because the war in Vietnam was over and we were well above strength at the time... which is why Bush I came up with the so-called "Peace Dividend"... Carter was a disaster from the day he took office, just like The Puppet has been. Double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, a failing economy, no respect on the world stage, all just like The Puppet. And for the same reasons. They both actually believe their fantasies of utopia and kum bay ya will actually work in the real world. Although, I don't think The Puppet understands that there IS a real world. And Clinton was the one that declared the "peace dividend", and gutted the military. He took the downsizing that Bush I started and put it on steroids. Then invaded the Balkans to keep his pederasty off the front pages of the news.
Peace dividend is a political slogan popularized by US President George H.W. Bush and UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the early 1990s, purporting to describe the economic benefit of a decrease in defense spending. It is used primarily in discussions relating to the guns versus butter theory. The term was frequently used at the end of the Cold War, when many Western nations significantly cut military spending (such as Britain's Options for Change defence review).
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Post by aponderer on Apr 6, 2015 23:59:25 GMT -5
I just found it on the History Channel site. Hostages released Jan. 21, just hours after Reagan was sworn in. The hostages were on one of three planes on the end of the airport runway at 8:45AM when Carter left the White House for the inauguration ceremonies... January 20... all the deals had been made for the release and the planes left Iranian airspace soon after that... On Jan. 20, 1981, Iran released 52 Americans who had been held hostage for 444 days, minutes after the presidency had passed from Jimmy Carter to Ronald Reagan.I'll ask again. A.D., where did you get your information that the hostages were release before Reagan's inauguration?
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 7, 2015 7:13:34 GMT -5
Carters memoirs... (emails saved by Carter )... I got it a bit wrong on the times... but heck, that was almost 35 years ago... planes ready for departure at 8:28 AM... Carters about to greet the Reagan at the White House at 9:45 AM... left for the inauguration some time later... January 20, 1981 8:28 AM., from Operations Center: "The planes are now standing at the end of the runway. One Iranian F-4 [fighter plane] is active. May be escort." I then get a series of reports about escort planes orbiting the airport and a jeep checking the runway. I confirm the serial numbers of the two 727's to be sure they are the right ones. 9:45 AM., from Christopher: "Takeoff is not imminent, but I can state for certain that it will be before noon. Iran asks Algeria not to announce departure until after the planes clear Iranian airspace.
10:45 A M., from Rosalyn: "Jimmy, the Reagans will be here in 15 minutes. You will have to put on your morning clothes and greet them."
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Post by aponderer on Apr 7, 2015 7:54:50 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter didn't get it quite right in his memoirs... I doubt very seriously he had the 727 "serial numbers" of those Algerian 727s. Those airplanes would be identified by their tail numbers, which are not serial numbers. For an interesting read on the hostages' take on the whole incident, look here. It's a long read, but quite aways down is interesting. It looks like Carter was informed as to what would happen if he allowed the Shah to come to the U.S. After the hostages were freed, when Carter met with them, he was not warmly received.
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Post by aponderer on Apr 7, 2015 8:05:54 GMT -5
Clinton also cut back drastically on the intelligence services. I know people involved in intelligence and they are pretty bitter how Clinton gutted them, leaving the US more vulnerable. Carter's disaster was his inability to free the hostages (not to mention letting the Shah come to the U.S. after being deposed--the real reason for the hostage crises). It's quite a coincidence how the hostages were freed within hours after Reagan's inaugural address... The hostages were freed BEFORE Ronald Reagan took the oath of office... not hours after... and the Reagan/Bush team worked very hard during the campaign to keep the hostages held hostage until they just couldn't do it any more... Carter made the final deal to complete the release... And as for those intelligence people you know being bitter at Clinton... it's always bad when someone loses their job... but that doesn't necessarily mean that the work doesn't go on just as well as it did... my former company downsized from about 650 in my little town to less than 2 dozen while I was there... the work same work still goes on... I don't hold being a humanitarian against Jimmy Carter... we'd do well to have more like him... The people I knew didn't lose their jobs, but saw the damage to our intelligence responsibilities. I hope you aren't suggesting that reducing our intelligence services manpower by 96% (as was the case of your former company) would result in the same work still going on. The example of your former company tells me that there were too many union people doing "makework" tasks, and that the real work could be handled by the few dozen remaining after the layoffs...
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 7, 2015 9:32:58 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter didn't get it quite right in his memoirs... I doubt very seriously he had the 727 "serial numbers" of those Algerian 727s. Those airplanes would be identified by their tail numbers, which are not serial numbers. For an interesting read on the hostages' take on the whole incident, look here. It's a long read, but quite aways down is interesting. It looks like Carter was informed as to what would happen if he allowed the Shah to come to the U.S. After the hostages were freed, when Carter met with them, he was not warmly received. "Serial numbers" is likely only what Carter called them... (he was a Southerner, you know)... I also got a laugh out of him saying planes were "orbiting" the airport... nevertheless, the hostages were on their way home prior to Reagan's inauguration... not hours after... Good read... (I knew you had something or wouldn't have kept asking )... Carter and I were close... I'll save it... thanks...
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 7, 2015 9:44:19 GMT -5
The hostages were freed BEFORE Ronald Reagan took the oath of office... not hours after... and the Reagan/Bush team worked very hard during the campaign to keep the hostages held hostage until they just couldn't do it any more... Carter made the final deal to complete the release... And as for those intelligence people you know being bitter at Clinton... it's always bad when someone loses their job... but that doesn't necessarily mean that the work doesn't go on just as well as it did... my former company downsized from about 650 in my little town to less than 2 dozen while I was there... the work same work still goes on... I don't hold being a humanitarian against Jimmy Carter... we'd do well to have more like him... The people I knew didn't lose their jobs, but saw the damage to our intelligence responsibilities. I hope you aren't suggesting that reducing our intelligence services manpower by 96% (as was the case of your former company) would result in the same work still going on. The example of your former company tells me that there were too many union people doing "makework" tasks, and that the real work could be handled by the few dozen remaining after the layoffs... Actually, the people at my former company were transferred to several other locations/cities/states when the company consolidated operations, downsized, and individuals retired... (still only 1 non-member)... the work I did basically remained the same...
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Post by aponderer on Apr 7, 2015 11:41:12 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter didn't get it quite right in his memoirs... I doubt very seriously he had the 727 "serial numbers" of those Algerian 727s. Those airplanes would be identified by their tail numbers, which are not serial numbers. For an interesting read on the hostages' take on the whole incident, look here. It's a long read, but quite aways down is interesting. It looks like Carter was informed as to what would happen if he allowed the Shah to come to the U.S. After the hostages were freed, when Carter met with them, he was not warmly received. "Serial numbers" is likely only what Carter called them... (he was a Southerner, you know)... I also got a laugh out of him saying planes were "orbiting" the airport... nevertheless, the hostages were on their way home prior to Reagan's inauguration... not hours after... Good read... (I knew you had something or wouldn't have kept asking )... Carter and I were close... I'll save it... thanks... I would think that Carter--a Navy man--should know what "tail numbers" are, despite him being a submariner. I suspect subs have "serial numbers" (hull numbers), but other designations such as "Nautilus" (SSN-571). Actually, "orbiting" is an aviation term so his use of that term is OK. Another term for it is "loitering." Both are similar to a "holding pattern." Hang in there, A.D. We'll get you learned up.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 7, 2015 16:09:56 GMT -5
"Serial numbers" is likely only what Carter called them... (he was a Southerner, you know)... I also got a laugh out of him saying planes were "orbiting" the airport... nevertheless, the hostages were on their way home prior to Reagan's inauguration... not hours after... Good read... (I knew you had something or wouldn't have kept asking )... Carter and I were close... I'll save it... thanks... I would think that Carter--a Navy man--should know what "tail numbers" are, despite him being a submariner. I suspect subs have "serial numbers" (hull numbers), but other designations such as "Nautilus" (SSN-571). Actually, "orbiting" is an aviation term so his use of that term is OK. Another term for it is "loitering." Both are similar to a "holding pattern." Hang in there, A.D. We'll get you learned up. I'll have to ask Jimmy why he used the words he used the next time I see him... and being a little Ole farmer from Soso, MS, I wasn't familiar with Carter's use of the word "orbiting"... I thought that was what astronauts did... and I thought "loitering" was standing around when and where you weren't weanted... shows why he was President and I wasn't...
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Post by aponderer on Apr 7, 2015 16:29:32 GMT -5
I guess you know that Carter was against the M1 (turbine powered) main battle tank program until he found out it could run on peanut oil.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 7, 2015 17:24:59 GMT -5
Political Capitalism...
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 7, 2015 19:13:55 GMT -5
Good lord. How did a thread about Governor Wolf proposing tax hikes degenerate into more "Reagan was a monster" insanity? Oh... AD is here. Nevermind.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 8, 2015 8:10:11 GMT -5
Some people enjoy talking... and then some people want to do all the talking... the OP had no teeth, so a couple of us just wanted to have a little fun conversing and having a little fun talk... then you come along complaining...
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Post by redleg on Apr 8, 2015 20:36:07 GMT -5
Carter was a disaster from the day he took office, just like The Puppet has been. Double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, a failing economy, no respect on the world stage, all just like The Puppet. And for the same reasons. They both actually believe their fantasies of utopia and kum bay ya will actually work in the real world. Although, I don't think The Puppet understands that there IS a real world. And Clinton was the one that declared the "peace dividend", and gutted the military. He took the downsizing that Bush I started and put it on steroids. Then invaded the Balkans to keep his pederasty off the front pages of the news.
Peace dividend is a political slogan popularized by US President George H.W. Bush and UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the early 1990s, purporting to describe the economic benefit of a decrease in defense spending. It is used primarily in discussions relating to the guns versus butter theory. The term was frequently used at the end of the Cold War, when many Western nations significantly cut military spending (such as Britain's Options for Change defence review).And who was President in "the early 90s"? Unless you are talking about 1990, or 1991, it was Waco Billy Boy Clinton, the Rapist in Chief.
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Post by aboutwell on Apr 8, 2015 21:43:55 GMT -5
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Post by aponderer on Apr 12, 2015 23:26:26 GMT -5
And while we're raggin' on Carter, let's not forget he gave away the Panama Canal...
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