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Post by Ranger John on Jul 1, 2018 12:06:37 GMT -5
Yahoo!An Idaho man stabbed at least 9, including children, at an apartment complex. Initial reports indicate the apartment complex caters to refugees. The suspect has been identified as Timmy Kinner, 30.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 1, 2018 15:53:49 GMT -5
Bummer.
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Post by palealeman on Jul 1, 2018 21:39:39 GMT -5
You seem to have a real fascination with these mass casualty incidents, RJ. Maybe that's why you want the shootings to continue. And now stabbings too. Must have been a good day for you today to read about this.
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Post by 3000fps on Jul 1, 2018 23:38:03 GMT -5
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Post by microg on Jul 2, 2018 8:13:20 GMT -5
You seem to have a real fascination with these mass casualty incidents, RJ. Maybe that's why you want the shootings to continue. And now stabbings too. Must have been a good day for you today to read about this. Wow. That was uncalled for. Given how quiet the board has been, I'll take any topic and this one was a major news story. Perhaps you would like to post some new topics that you think should be of interest?
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Post by redleg on Jul 2, 2018 9:36:58 GMT -5
I noticed how the incident was instantly attributed to Trump. No facts, no real reports, just emotions. If it's bad it must be Trump's fault. Typical fake news.
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 2, 2018 10:02:25 GMT -5
You seem to have a real fascination with these mass casualty incidents, RJ. Maybe that's why you want the shootings to continue. And now stabbings too. Must have been a good day for you today to read about this. Wow. That was uncalled for. Given how quiet the board has been, I'll take any topic and this one was a major news story. Perhaps you would like to post some new topics that you think should be of interest? Definately weird given that he complained about how long it took to post a thread about the mass shooting in Annapolis.
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Post by breakingbad on Jul 2, 2018 18:24:36 GMT -5
Wow. That was uncalled for. Given how quiet the board has been, I'll take any topic and this one was a major news story. Perhaps you would like to post some new topics that you think should be of interest? Definately weird given that he complained about how long it took to post a thread about the mass shooting in Annapolis. He certainly has an obsession with you, RJ.
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Post by 3000fps on Jul 2, 2018 23:50:20 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 3, 2018 6:01:59 GMT -5
Definately weird given that he complained about how long it took to post a thread about the mass shooting in Annapolis. He certainly has an obsession with you, RJ. I probably would too if I saw the world the way he does, and someone kept popping my reality bubble. Let's be honest, both of these stories went horribly wrong for him. By not posting a thread on the Annapolis shooting right away, he missed the opportunity to blame violent white Trump supporters for shooting up a fake news outlet. Once if turned out that Ramos' motives were personal he (and apparently most liberals) stopped caring about it. Never mind that Ramos is only white in the same way George Zimmerman is: he isn't, but the racist fake news needs to report that he is because saying he's Latino undermines the Anti-Trump narrative. It also invites unwanted questions about Ramos and his family's immigration status. Never mind a Latino from Laurel, MD is unlikely to EVER be a Trump supporter. By waiting a couple days to post the story, he lost his shot at politicizing it. The story in the OP of this thread undermines the anti-gun narrative because it demonstrates we have a violence problem in this country, not a gun problem. And the suspect is a black man.
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Post by breakingbad on Jul 3, 2018 10:19:08 GMT -5
Don't forget : he didn't use an assault rifle
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Post by palealeman on Jul 3, 2018 12:50:44 GMT -5
My point, RJ, is that you seem fascinated with these mass murder stories. You post about them but never provide anything that could lead to a solution. But that's what unthinking partisans do == accept the regressive talking points and vomit them back.
I agree that there's not much that can be done about stabbings. How abut this for shootings: require a permit, issued by either local or state police, before anyone can purchase any kind of firearm. The permit would be issued after a local/state and federal record check and could also look into things only known locally, e.g., like the claims brought against the Annapolis shooter. Sounds like a fairly common sense solution. Comments?
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 3, 2018 12:59:34 GMT -5
My point, RJ, is that you seem fascinated with these mass murder stories. You post about them but never provide anything that could lead to a solution. But that's what unthinking partisans do == accept the regressive talking points and vomit them back. Generally when I start these threads, I do so by starting with just the news story. I leave it up to people like you to decide how you want to politicize it. Ok. How would that differ from passing a NICS system background check?
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 3, 2018 14:19:04 GMT -5
My point, RJ, is that you seem fascinated with these mass murder stories. You post about them but never provide anything that could lead to a solution. But that's what unthinking partisans do == accept the regressive talking points and vomit them back. I agree that there's not much that can be done about stabbings. How abut this for shootings: require a permit, issued by either local or state police, before anyone can purchase any kind of firearm. The permit would be issued after a local/state and federal record check and could also look into things only known locally, e.g., like the claims brought against the Annapolis shooter. Sounds like a fairly common sense solution. Comments? Background checks might or might not stop a nutbag, it won't stop criminals, that would entail better reporting by doctors as to who is nuts. How about legalizing concealed carry everywhere, and getting rid of gun free zones. That would probably lower the number of killings after a bit.
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Post by palealeman on Jul 3, 2018 19:01:39 GMT -5
RJ,the NICS system is a compilation of what's reported by locals or states. A local/state check would pick up some things that are not reported nationally. A local search would have turned up more information on the Annapolis shooter, things that would never be in the national search.
HAWGTP, the research on carry laws is mixed. You can make a case that open carry laws reduce violent crime, and also make a case that those same laws contribute to more violent crime. More research is needed.
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Post by microg on Jul 3, 2018 19:13:02 GMT -5
RJ,the NICS system is a compilation of what's reported by locals or states. A local/state check would pick up some things that are not reported nationally. A local search would have turned up more information on the Annapolis shooter, things that would never be in the national search. HAWGTP, the research on carry laws is mixed. You can make a case that open carry laws reduce violent crime, and also make a case that those same laws contribute to more violent crime. More research is needed. I agree that state checks can certainly be more thorough.
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Post by redleg on Jul 3, 2018 21:15:17 GMT -5
You have yet to offer even a partial solution. You simply whine that RJ hasn't magically provided the exact cure for the issue. So, are you okay with applying the same standard to political parties? Voting? aggregating more than, say, 3 people at any given time? Petitioning the government to address grievances? How about before people are 'secure in their persons, papers and property'? Besides which, in nearly all of the mass shootings in the last 2 years or so, the shooter was "on the radar" of the police, even the FBI. So, why weren't they prohibited from buying firearms? In the FL case, he even committed several crimes, but wasn't prosecuted.
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Post by redleg on Jul 3, 2018 21:32:33 GMT -5
RJ,the NICS system is a compilation of what's reported by locals or states. A local/state check would pick up some things that are not reported nationally. A local search would have turned up more information on the Annapolis shooter, things that would never be in the national search. HAWGTP, the research on carry laws is mixed. You can make a case that open carry laws reduce violent crime, and also make a case that those same laws contribute to more violent crime. More research is needed. He didn't say anything about open carry, he said concealed carry. In the states and cities with the highest crime, CCWs are not issued, except to highly politically connected, or very rich individuals. In Chicago, it's almost illegal to even have a sidearm in your home. Concealed carry does affect crime rates, to an extent, because criminals are not sure who might be armed, and who isn't. Of course, in the free fire zones, created by Democrat pols, they know that no one will be armed, which is why they choose them to shoot people.
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Post by kemmer on Jul 4, 2018 0:35:39 GMT -5
Knives and guns have both been around for a long, long time, without producing these mass killing events. That fact tells me weaponry is neither the problem nor the solution.
In this case, from what I've seen, the killer had been staying with someone there, and was told to leave. (Considering the aftermath, I'd say whomever he was staying with acted sensibly.) He got pissed, went back to express his anger. The person who'd refused to grant him houseroom anymore was not there, so he attacked children attending a birthday party. That act seems totally unreasonable, even insane, to most of us. But consider, he was disrespected. His feelings were hurt. He was angry. I'm almost certain he felt totally justified in what he did-- at least, at the time.
I would say the thing he, and the other mass killers of strangers, have in common is an excess of self-esteem. There's a reason Pride is named the first of the Seven Deadly Sins. (That would be overweening pride, of course.) Let us remember that the public schools of America embraced the "self-esteem movement", teaching kindergartners to sing songs like: "I am special, just because I'm me." Public schools have, also, moved strongly against "bullying"-- to the point of defining bullying as "not wanting to be friends with somebody." We've done a lot to infect our children with toxic narcissism (yeah, and helicopter parents aren't blameless here, either, wanting their little darlings to provide them with bragging rights.)
Somehow, we've forgotten how small we are in the scheme of things, universe-wise. Religion used to serve that function, with a great, omnipotent God watching to see we obeyed commandments, performed our duties, et al. (No god or goddess I've ever read about cared much about any tiny human's little "feelings".) That doesn't work in a secular society-- and I don't think we want to bring back religious warfare.
Here's a wild thought. Maybe, we should look to the stars-- literally! I am old enough to remember a time when, inside the city limits of Cleveland, it was possible, on a very clear night, to see the Milky Way. How about, on one publicized night, we get the power companies to turn off all streetlights, just for an hour. Do it in winter when night comes before bedtime, and consult with local meteorologists to predict a cloudless night (different for different parts of the county, of course, so we'd have to be nimble.) The children might not see the Milky Way, but they'd see that there are far more than forty-seven stars up there... billions of other suns, perhaps with planets. That might knock everyone back down to size. We could sell it as part of STEM education.
Or we could just stop preaching "self-esteem" as the holy grail of life and happiness.
There's a lot of wisdom in a joke I remember from my childhood: "Sure, the world owes you a living. You just have to work damned hard to get it." I would state that the same goes for the "respect" all these mass murderers think they're owed. "Sure, people owe you respect, but you have to make yourself respectable to get it."
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Post by microg on Jul 4, 2018 7:08:11 GMT -5
I would say the thing he, and the other mass killers of strangers, have in common is an excess of self-esteem. There's a reason Pride is named the first of the Seven Deadly Sins. (That would be overweening pride, of course.) Let us remember that the public schools of America embraced the "self-esteem movement", teaching kindergartners to sing songs like: "I am special, just because I'm me." Public schools have, also, moved strongly against "bullying"-- to the point of defining bullying as "not wanting to be friends with somebody." We've done a lot to infect our children with toxic narcissism (yeah, and helicopter parents aren't blameless here, either, wanting their little darlings to provide them with bragging rights.) Could it be possible that these mass killers actually have a low self-esteem; feelings of exclusion, loneliness, and abandonment? They try to cope day to day by denying these feelings until an event occurs that causes their emptiness to surface and experience rage? Kind of like pure sodium dropping into water?
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 4, 2018 8:40:44 GMT -5
RJ,the NICS system is a compilation of what's reported by locals or states. A local/state check would pick up some things that are not reported nationally. A local search would have turned up more information on the Annapolis shooter, things that would never be in the national search. I agree the NICS system needs to be tightened up considerably. More than one if these whackjobs had disqualifying incidents in their past that were not reported. I would add penalties to courts and agencies that fail to report. But local and state information is supposed to be in NICS already.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 4, 2018 15:00:59 GMT -5
Another idea being pushed is to encourage the press to never publish the mass killers names or stories, it is not proposed to make this a law, but social pressure can be applied to news organizations who fail to comply. This supposedly could reduce the 30% or so copycat killings that regularly occur within 12 days of a mass killing. I would also encourage the news to use the least flattering terms to describe (not name) these deranged individuals.
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Post by palealeman on Jul 4, 2018 16:57:58 GMT -5
Right, RJ, info is supposed to be there. Arrest and conviction information usually is. But, using the recent Annapolis situation, there were criminal justice contacts with the perp that may not necessarily be forwarded to a Federal database. E.g., the Annapolis paper declined to get a restraining order. That info would never hit a Federal database, but would reside in the "institutional memory" of the police department. There would be records to review.
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 4, 2018 17:12:52 GMT -5
Right, RJ, info is supposed to be there. Arrest and conviction information usually is. But, using the recent Annapolis situation, there were criminal justice contacts with the perp that may not necessarily be forwarded to a Federal database. E.g., the Annapolis paper declined to get a restraining order. That info would never hit a Federal database, but would reside in the "institutional memory" of the police department. There would be records to review. Sure, but without the conviction, or some other court finding, what's the legal basis for denying 2A rights?
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Post by redleg on Jul 4, 2018 17:32:00 GMT -5
Right, RJ, info is supposed to be there. Arrest and conviction information usually is. But, using the recent Annapolis situation, there were criminal justice contacts with the perp that may not necessarily be forwarded to a Federal database. E.g., the Annapolis paper declined to get a restraining order. That info would never hit a Federal database, but would reside in the "institutional memory" of the police department. There would be records to review. So, someone causes an incident, the 'victim' doesn't press charges, but he's supposed to lose his Constitutionally enumerated rights because if it? Really? Would that go for voting, association, religion, and speech as well?
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