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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 18:31:14 GMT -5
The wind, waves and hydro plants don't stop at night. The point is that Germany and Europe will be much closer to their renewable target than the US will. So you don't care about the ecological damage all these are doing? And at what cost are they going green? Of course they don't. They don't care about the birds that are killed by the windmills or the vast size of solar plants either.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 18:33:55 GMT -5
The wind, waves and hydro plants don't stop at night. Hydroelectricity can only be generated on rivers and must be shipped elsewhere, which brings in a lot of transmission losses. Wind and wave power can only be generated on coasts, typically inhabited by rich people with the pull to get those projects stopped. And they are implicated in various ecological damage. These are also immature technologies; we can't rely solely on them. Wind power in particular is a LONG way from being an 'immature technology.' Windmills have existed since the first century. After 2000 years, humanity isn't going to make them any better.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 6, 2013 18:36:34 GMT -5
Wind power in particular is a LONG way from being an 'immature technology.' Windmills have existed since the first century. After 2000 years, humanity isn't going to make them any better. Wind power has been around for millennia. Using windmill farms to generate electricity is new. The types of blades involved are new. The machinery to generate the power and distribute it, and manage the farms is new. The ecological ramifications are still unknown.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 18:44:39 GMT -5
Wind power in particular is a LONG way from being an 'immature technology.' Windmills have existed since the first century. After 2000 years, humanity isn't going to make them any better. Wind power has been around for millennia. Using windmill farms to generate electricity is new. The types of blades involved are new. The machinery to generate the power and distribute it, and manage the farms is new. The ecological ramifications are still unknown. There are new designs and materials, just as their are with coal fired power plants, but the concept is NOT new. And there's no sign yet that those new materials or designs can overcome what has been the fatal flaw of wind-power since people first thought to try it: the wind stops blowing. This is a VERY mature technology being re-purposed for something else. At the end of the day the reason people stopped building windmills to grind grain a century ago is the same reason they're not economical for power generation.
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Post by zenwalk on Nov 6, 2013 18:53:22 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 19:00:03 GMT -5
ROTFLMAO! No seriously, the average life expectancy of a solar panel is 20-40 years. If it's going to take 50 years to change the country over, it'll have to start over again before it reaches it's goal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 19:05:27 GMT -5
ROTFLMAO! No seriously, the average life expectancy of a solar panel is 20-40 years. If it's going to take 50 years to change the country over, it'll have to start over again before it reaches it's goal. And the life expectancy of a barrel of oil or a lump of coal is?
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 19:07:55 GMT -5
ROTFLMAO! No seriously, the average life expectancy of a solar panel is 20-40 years. If it's going to take 50 years to change the country over, it'll have to start over again before it reaches it's goal. And the life expectancy of a barrel of oil or a lump of coal is? Millions (if not billions) of years.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 19:19:02 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 19:23:18 GMT -5
And the life expectancy of a barrel of oil or a lump of coal is? Millions (if not billions) of years. I think that went over your head.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 19:40:43 GMT -5
Millions (if not billions) of years. I think that went over your head. *shrugs* Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean the problem is it went over my head. A lump of coal doesn't have a life expectancy. Now, if you'd asked an intelligent question like how long I think the supply of fossil fuels will last, that's a little more interesting. But the truth of the matter with that question is we just don't know. Every time someone has suggested we've reached 'peak oil' they've turned out to be horribly, horribly wrong.
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Post by zenwalk on Nov 6, 2013 19:51:01 GMT -5
Millions (if not billions) of years. I think that went over your head. Many things do evidently.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 19:55:21 GMT -5
I think that went over your head. *shrugs* Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean the problem is it went over my head. A lump of coal doesn't have a life expectancy. Now, if you'd asked an intelligent question like how long I think the supply of fossil fuels will last, that's a little more interesting. But the truth of the matter with that question is we just don't know. Every time someone has suggested we've reached 'peak oil' they've turned out to be horribly, horribly wrong. Shrug as much as you like. The question, relevant to your post was "intelligent", you either chose not to see it or failed to understand it.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 19:59:40 GMT -5
*shrugs* Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean the problem is it went over my head. A lump of coal doesn't have a life expectancy. Now, if you'd asked an intelligent question like how long I think the supply of fossil fuels will last, that's a little more interesting. But the truth of the matter with that question is we just don't know. Every time someone has suggested we've reached 'peak oil' they've turned out to be horribly, horribly wrong. Shrug as much as you like. The question, relevant to your post was "intelligent", you either chose not to see it or failed to understand it. Seriously, you asked what the life expectancy of a lump of coal was. Did you mean to ask how long until humanity runs out of fossil fuels?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 21:15:37 GMT -5
All these folks of brilliance have not mentioned tsunamis or Japan once. You still will never even think of the concept of us thinking do we need so much energy, and the so many reasons around us our supposed needs are really hurting us. But you have very eloquently stated their case of the beauty of nukes. Sorry I don't buy it. Fukushima fatalities-- current toll is zero. Such harm and evil!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 21:19:12 GMT -5
Shrug as much as you like. The question, relevant to your post was "intelligent", you either chose not to see it or failed to understand it. Seriously, you asked what the life expectancy of a lump of coal was. Did you mean to ask how long until humanity runs out of fossil fuels? They thought we would have run out by now back in the 70s...instead world reserves are known to be larger now than they were back then. At some point alternatives will be a major part of the mix-- and that's not a bad thing at all. Less pollution is better for folks with asthma and less cancer is always good. But that's only the energy portion of it--oil has many, many more uses in petrochemical industry, from fertilizer to medications to food flavorings, even Vaseline. It will always be needed. And we aren't running out for a long, long time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 21:21:19 GMT -5
ROTFLMAO! No seriously, the average life expectancy of a solar panel is 20-40 years. If it's going to take 50 years to change the country over, it'll have to start over again before it reaches it's goal. And the life expectancy of a barrel of oil or a lump of coal is? Likely hundreds of more years. Esp with coal. There's a lot of it. We're talking BILLIONS of years of compressed biomatter. Earth is an old, old place, and we're just a blip.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 21:23:22 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 6, 2013 21:26:21 GMT -5
Seriously, you asked what the life expectancy of a lump of coal was. Did you mean to ask how long until humanity runs out of fossil fuels? They thought we would have run out by now back in the 70s...instead world reserves are known to be larger now than they were back then. At some point alternatives will be a major part of the mix-- and that's not a bad thing at all. Less pollution is better for folks with asthma and less cancer is always good. But that's only the energy portion of it--oil has many, many more uses in petrochemical industry, from fertilizer to medications to food flavorings, even Vaseline. It will always be needed. And we aren't running out for a long, long time. That's exactly right. "Peak Oil" theory has been popping up sporadically since shortly after man found a use for it. Given the Earth is a finite place, logic says that one day humanity will run out. Provided of course we don't figure out a way to manufacture it first.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 21:38:35 GMT -5
They thought we would have run out by now back in the 70s...instead world reserves are known to be larger now than they were back then. At some point alternatives will be a major part of the mix-- and that's not a bad thing at all. Less pollution is better for folks with asthma and less cancer is always good. But that's only the energy portion of it--oil has many, many more uses in petrochemical industry, from fertilizer to medications to food flavorings, even Vaseline. It will always be needed. And we aren't running out for a long, long time. That's exactly right. "Peak Oil" theory has been popping up sporadically since shortly after man found a use for it. Given the Earth is a finite place, logic says that one day humanity will run out. Provided of course we don't figure out a way to manufacture it first. Exactly. And once we are no longer dependent on oil for energy- and I do believe that will come- fusion and better battery tech that make wind and solar more economically viable will come, and that will make them cheaper- we'll have enough for plastics and such to last hundreds, if not thousands of years. And if we're not off this planet by then, finding new resources and new life-bearing planets to drill for oil, our species will likely be extinct.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 22:05:19 GMT -5
Maybe they'll start another crazy war with the world they can't possibly win?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 22:12:20 GMT -5
Maybe they'll start another crazy war with the world they can't possibly win? Only if they elect another crazy socialist.....
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Post by douger on Nov 6, 2013 22:21:13 GMT -5
They thought we would have run out by now back in the 70s...instead world reserves are known to be larger now than they were back then. At some point alternatives will be a major part of the mix-- and that's not a bad thing at all. Less pollution is better for folks with asthma and less cancer is always good. But that's only the energy portion of it--oil has many, many more uses in petrochemical industry, from fertilizer to medications to food flavorings, even Vaseline. It will always be needed. And we aren't running out for a long, long time. That's exactly right. "Peak Oil" theory has been popping up sporadically since shortly after man found a use for it. Given the Earth is a finite place, logic says that one day humanity will run out. Provided of course we don't figure out a way to manufacture it first. The last time I heard the term "peak oil" used on a regular basis was by Roscoe Bartlett on Ron Smith's show. Then again, that was before fracking. The Green River formations are estimated to contain nearly a trillion barrels of recoverable oil. And for peak oil advocates, global oil production has been relatively steady for better than 20 years, as has consumption.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 22:28:42 GMT -5
Maybe they'll start another crazy war with the world they can't possibly win? Only if they elect another crazy socialist..... Hell, we got one........... ain't life great?
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Post by drjohnnyfever on Nov 7, 2013 0:36:51 GMT -5
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