Shin Bet Chief On Israel's Fading Two State Solution

[zenwalk]

If we don’t wish to continue ruling over another people and thus turn into an ostracized apartheid state, there is no alternative but to grant full rights, including the right to vote, to Palestinians. In such a scenario, there is no need to hold further discussions about the future of the Jewish and democratic vision as put forth by our founding fathers, the same vision on which we were reared and educated. It will melt away and disappear.

www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Diskin-Israel-nears-point-of-no-return-319701

Props to Diskin for taking a stand and being a vocal opponent of Netanyahu.  Those stubborn demographics.

[Deleted]

There is an alternative- independence for the Arab states of West Bank and Gaza. Arabs in Israel proper already have full civil rights. It's high time they cut those states loose. In 1967, they should have either ethnically cleansed, or taken the better route of taking repatriations in form of a few choice pieces from invaders, and given the rest back to Egypt and Jordan.

[Deleted]

Nov 8, 2013 13:10:34 GMT -5 zenwalk said:

If we don’t wish to continue ruling over another people and thus turn into an ostracized apartheid state, there is no alternative but to grant full rights, including the right to vote, to Palestinians. In such a scenario, there is no need to hold further discussions about the future of the Jewish and democratic vision as put forth by our founding fathers, the same vision on which we were reared and educated. It will melt away and disappear.

www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Diskin-Israel-nears-point-of-no-return-319701

Props to Diskin for taking a stand and being a vocal opponent of Netanyahu.  Those stubborn demographics.

Diskin needs to be very careful, he could well be eating polonium pie anytime soon.

[zenwalk]

Nov 8, 2013 13:15:11 GMT -5 @baldeagle said:

Nov 8, 2013 13:10:34 GMT -5 zenwalk said:

www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Diskin-Israel-nears-point-of-no-return-319701

Props to Diskin for taking a stand and being a vocal opponent of Netanyahu.  Those stubborn demographics.

Diskin needs to be very careful, he could well be eating polonium pie anytime soon.

He's buddies with the bakers. 

[zenwalk]

Nov 8, 2013 13:14:33 GMT -5 @sameoldhotdiggity said:

There is an alternative- independence for the Arab states of West Bank and Gaza. Arabs in Israel proper already have full civil rights. It's high time they cut those states loose. In 1967, they should have either ethnically cleansed, or taken the better route of taking repatriations in form of a few choice pieces from invaders, and given the rest back to Egypt and Jordan.

That's the point Dishkin is making. The West Bank is a mishmash of checkpoints and roadways connecting any number of bantustans. The problem comes when nation state status is granted. All that infrastructure has to come down, the settlers sent packing and all the myriad headaches that come with that.  That's why when more settlements are put up it only makes any solution impossible.  

[Deleted]

Nov 8, 2013 13:23:43 GMT -5 zenwalk said:

Nov 8, 2013 13:14:33 GMT -5 @sameoldhotdiggity said:

There is an alternative- independence for the Arab states of West Bank and Gaza. Arabs in Israel proper already have full civil rights. It's high time they cut those states loose. In 1967, they should have either ethnically cleansed, or taken the better route of taking repatriations in form of a few choice pieces from invaders, and given the rest back to Egypt and Jordan.

That's the point Dishkin is making. The West Bank is a mishmash of checkpoints and roadways connecting any number of bantustans. The problem comes when nation state status is granted. All that infrastructure has to come down, the settlers sent packing and all the myriad headaches that come with that.  That's why when more settlements are put up it only makes any solution impossible.  

.

He is right, though. It needs to be done, and done soon, for the good of all involved.

[rocketwolf]

You are assuming that good can come out of murderous religious hate?

[Deleted]

Nov 8, 2013 22:30:22 GMT -5 rocketwolf said:

You are assuming that good can come out of murderous religious hate?

Never will! Separation is the answer. Much easier to blow the hell out of another nation if it attacks you, leave it ruined, than it is to govern the ungrateful, impoverished leftovers of a failed invasion. Israel should have ethnically cleansed. Too late now- it should seize a few settlements, all of Jerusalem, evict a few people here and there, withdraw to allow reasonable state in West Bank, wall them all off, and cut them loose.

[Moses]

Human stupidity at its finest. How long is this stupid war going to go on?

[Moses]

Nov 8, 2013 22:30:22 GMT -5 rocketwolf said:

You are assuming that good can come out of murderous religious hate?

That's why many are against the tea party!

[zenwalk]

The reason failure is foreordained is painfully obvious, if unacknowledged. Previous peace initiatives did not fail because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict uniquely defies solution. They failed because the overriding strategic goal of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and of most previous Israeli heads of state, has been and continues to be Israel’s permanent control of all of Palestine.

There have been reports that members of Kerry’s team have detected changes in Netanyahu’s attitude toward the emerging danger of Israel’s international isolation and toward his legacy as a peacemaker. But that is the height of wishful thinking. The only “legacy” aspired to by the man who opposed every peace initiative supported by his predecessors in office, including the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s withdrawal of settlements from Gaza, is to be remembered as the Israeli leader who secured Greater Israel.

Excellent analysis of the republican-like obstruction Netanyahu brings to the peace process.

www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.557637

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2013 19:09:12 GMT -5 zenwalk said:

The reason failure is foreordained is painfully obvious, if unacknowledged. Previous peace initiatives did not fail because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict uniquely defies solution. They failed because the overriding strategic goal of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and of most previous Israeli heads of state, has been and continues to be Israel’s permanent control of all of Palestine.

There have been reports that members of Kerry’s team have detected changes in Netanyahu’s attitude toward the emerging danger of Israel’s international isolation and toward his legacy as a peacemaker. But that is the height of wishful thinking. The only “legacy” aspired to by the man who opposed every peace initiative supported by his predecessors in office, including the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s withdrawal of settlements from Gaza, is to be remembered as the Israeli leader who secured Greater Israel.

Excellent analysis of the republican-like obstruction Netanyahu brings to the peace process.

www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.557637

Arafat blew it for the Arabs in peace deals prior. This is certainly not one sided. Sadly, though, Israel must let the Arabs that call themselves Palestinians go.  For the good of Israel. Wall 'em off, seize land Israel wants that will not disrupt a contingent Arab state, give back land to make the new Arab West Bank state feasible, and seize all of Jerusalem as rightful war spoils. Then let 'em loose.