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Post by redleg on Nov 16, 2013 22:44:49 GMT -5
And what exactly are they protesting? Other than, of course, that they have to pay for their own education, their own food in some cases, and pot isn't yet free? Lmao Ah, so you don't know either. |
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Post by redleg on Nov 16, 2013 22:45:26 GMT -5
I would point out the health insurance companies and the current Marxist regime as well. Or are they not considered "big corporations"? There is no Marxist regime. Said the captain as the Titanic was sinking under his very feet. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 22:46:12 GMT -5
Y'all just hate them because they are right about what they protest about. Those damn hippies end up being about many things. Drives you righties bonkers. And what exactly are they protesting? Other than, of course, that they have to pay for their own education, their own food in some cases, and pot isn't yet free? They're protesting about running out of oil!! oh.... wait.... Global warming-- the Arctic ice cap is smaller than ever!! oh...wait.... They're advocating for the greatness of Obamacare!! oh...wait.... Geez, at least they supported a President who would never escalate the War on Terror to the point he would use drones toexecute American citizens!! Oh.... |
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Post by redleg on Nov 16, 2013 22:47:31 GMT -5
The only thing the unions are "needed" for is to launder money for the DNC. Otherwise, they would be thrown under the bus just like any other Dem constituent that is no longer able to finance the rackets. From the party perspective that might be true. But from the perspective of unionized employees, a union keeps employers from mistreating them. If you were being mistreated by an employer you'd be the first to sign up, I'll bet. After all, you accept a pension but demand no one else receive such things as Social Security and Medicare, which they paid for while they were working.  Wrong. I have no problems with SS, other than the fact that it's a criminal enterprise, and the Feds have no authority to operate it. Medicare is also illegal for the Feds to run, and it's bankrupting the country. Or was, until The Puppet started stealing from it to fund Puppettax, which will bankrupt us even faster. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 16, 2013 22:48:47 GMT -5
Sometimes capitalism combined with greed ends up being just a polite way of enslaving people. And government combined with socialism always does. Corporations came about because people needed things, and someone was there to supply those things. PEOPLE enslave people, because some of us are sociopaths or worse. Corporations are efficiency amplifiers and wealth engines. What they aren't is people, and they should never have been given that status. They should not be permitted to contribute to political candidates or to lobby them, directly or otherwise. They do not have a right to free speech. These rights exist for the membership of a corporation (employees) but they must expect to be accountable for them. And corporate misdeeds should not be a line item - a fine is insufficient punishment. If it is not possible to identify the perpetrator of corporate misdeeds, then the CEO can go to prison for them. Make it his job to keep his operation honest and make him bet his freedom that he can. |
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Post by Moses on Nov 16, 2013 22:50:11 GMT -5
And what exactly are they protesting? Other than, of course, that they have to pay for their own education, their own food in some cases, and pot isn't yet free? They're protesting about running out of oil!! oh.... wait.... Global warming-- the Arctic ice cap is smaller than ever!!  oh...wait.... They're advocating for the greatness of Obamacare!!  oh...wait.... Geez, at least they supported a President who would never escalate the War on Terror to the point he would use drones toexecute  American citizens!!  Oh.... Luckily nothing here from the republican play book you libertarian you . |
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Nov 17, 2013 8:13:40 GMT -5
Of course unions are needed. I don't even regard that as "too bad" but instead as inevitable given that greed drives most people, and it seems to drive those who run corporations harder, or more commonly, than it does a random sample of the public. I suppose the kind of ambition necessary to produce a corporation of any successful size is a distilled form of greed. Maybe one day we will progress beyond this idea of corporations being run by unethical people . Sometimes capitalism combined with greed ends up being just a polite way of enslaving people. And when there is no capitalism greed enslaves people without the politeness. |
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Nov 17, 2013 8:19:47 GMT -5
The only thing the unions are "needed" for is to launder money for the DNC. Otherwise, they would be thrown under the bus just like any other Dem constituent that is no longer able to finance the rackets. From the party perspective that might be true. But from the perspective of unionized employees, a union keeps employers from mistreating them. If you were being mistreated by an employer you'd be the first to sign up, I'll bet. After all, you accept a pension but demand no one else receive such things as Social Security and Medicare, which they paid for while they were working. Some people paid in some amount, other people didn't pay in at all, and a lot of people get out way more than they paid in. It is unsustainable regardless of if people feel they are owed these entitlements. Pensions are supposed to be invested, and bring a return. |
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Nov 17, 2013 8:23:32 GMT -5
And government combined with socialism always does. Corporations came about because people needed things, and someone was there to supply those things. PEOPLE enslave people, because some of us are sociopaths or worse. Corporations are efficiency amplifiers and wealth engines. What they aren't is people, and they should never have been given that status. They should not be permitted to contribute to political candidates or to lobby them, directly or otherwise. They do not have a right to free speech. These rights exist for the membership of a corporation (employees) but they must expect to be accountable for them. And corporate misdeeds should not be a line item - a fine is insufficient punishment. If it is not possible to identify the perpetrator of corporate misdeeds, then the CEO can go to prison for them. Make it his job to keep his operation honest and make him bet his freedom that he can. Give or take your putting the CEO in jail because an underling committed a crime through the company I agree with you that corporations are not people. |
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Post by rocketwolf on Nov 17, 2013 8:58:38 GMT -5
If corporations aren't people (tho the courts disagree)
Then neither are unions
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Post by rocketwolf on Nov 17, 2013 9:00:15 GMT -5
I do wish more corporation leaders spent time in jails
for the crimes they commit.
Union bosses too of course.
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Post by Moses on Nov 17, 2013 10:14:08 GMT -5
If corporations aren't people (tho the courts disagree) Then neither are unions Who ever said unions are people? |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 17, 2013 10:14:49 GMT -5
Give or take your putting the CEO in jail because an underling committed a crime through the company I agree with you that corporations are not people. That would occur only if the actual perpetrator could not be identified. The idea is to create a powerful incentive to keep the company culture ethical, a counter-tension to what we have now, where each level is slightly richer in unethical people than the level below it, because the unethical man has more tools in his kit to help in advance. The heads of corporations are generally very well compensated for doing that job. I'm okay if that comes with a little risk, and they would be, too. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 17, 2013 10:15:23 GMT -5
If corporations aren't people (tho the courts disagree) Then neither are unions Legally, unions are not people. Corporations should not be, either. |
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Post by Moses on Nov 17, 2013 10:17:17 GMT -5
If corporations aren't people (tho the courts disagree) Then neither are unions Legally, unions are not people. Corporations should not be, either. Shows any sane person the fact that somehow corporations got the government to recognize them as people that something is seriously wrong. |
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Post by rocketwolf on Nov 17, 2013 13:11:22 GMT -5
If corporations aren't people (tho the courts disagree) Then neither are unions Legally, unions are not people. Corporations should not be, either. then we agree |
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Post by Moses on Nov 17, 2013 13:14:40 GMT -5
Legally, unions are not people. Corporations should not be, either. then we agree I don't mean to speak for yoda, but he was correcting your premise. Corporations have the "people" status unions do not. Funny huh? |
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Post by rocketwolf on Nov 17, 2013 13:23:29 GMT -5
My premise is either neither or both should be,
I prefer neither.
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Post by Moses on Nov 17, 2013 13:24:44 GMT -5
My premise is either neither or both should be, I prefer neither. Me too. I look forward to the day we don't even need unions! I'm guessing 10,000 years. Right when those nuke rods are cooled! |
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Post by dsummoner on Nov 18, 2013 8:53:10 GMT -5
Obama is trotting out his Orciban (Orc on Wall Street; OWS) domestic terrorist group, again? The healthcare insurance debacle must be even worse than advertised. Someone should let the Orciban in on the secret that Obama has continued the bailouts of the big banks.
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Post by redleg on Nov 18, 2013 9:36:54 GMT -5
And government combined with socialism always does. Corporations came about because people needed things, and someone was there to supply those things. PEOPLE enslave people, because some of us are sociopaths or worse. Corporations are efficiency amplifiers and wealth engines. What they aren't is people, and they should never have been given that status. They should not be permitted to contribute to political candidates or to lobby them, directly or otherwise. They do not have a right to free speech. These rights exist for the membership of a corporation (employees) but they must expect to be accountable for them. And corporate misdeeds should not be a line item - a fine is insufficient punishment. If it is not possible to identify the perpetrator of corporate misdeeds, then the CEO can go to prison for them. Make it his job to keep his operation honest and make him bet his freedom that he can.So, should the same thing apply to government? Should the President go to jail for the misdeeds of his subordinates? Should a Cabinet Minister be fined for the sins of his underlings? Governments are "people" as well. The real problem is that far too many people want a king, and since our form of government prohibits that, they bestow the magical powers that used to be reserved for the king on our President. He can cure syphilis, hold back the seas, and make it rain with the waive of his hand. The fact that one has to surrender all of their liberty, and that of their neighbors as well, for that to happen is irrelevant. |
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Post by redleg on Nov 18, 2013 9:40:39 GMT -5
Give or take your putting the CEO in jail because an underling committed a crime through the company I agree with you that corporations are not people. That would occur only if the actual perpetrator could not be identified. The idea is to create a powerful incentive to keep the company culture ethical, a counter-tension to what we have now, where each level is slightly richer in unethical people than the level below it, because the unethical man has more tools in his kit to help in advance. The heads of corporations are generally very well compensated for doing that job. I'm okay if that comes with a little risk, and they would be, too. That can only happen if we force the Federal government back to the limits set by the Constitution. When a government is big enough to give you everything, it's big enough to bribe the members, buy them if need be, to give YOU what it won't give someone else. The real reason we have the corruption we have now is because the Federal government has usurped enough power, illegally, that it's worth bribing the members thereof. If Congressmen and bureaucrats didn't have the power to do something, it wouldn't be worthwhile to bribe them. |
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