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Post by mmmbeer on Aug 23, 2015 19:59:30 GMT -5
but not a great one. In the race until 8/23. Better than the dark years, for sure. The talent level isn't high enough to make the playoffs every year. Ready for 2016!  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 23:04:39 GMT -5
When the team clearly got weaker over the winter, I had fears of season-long mediocrity in 2015. The Orioles are what they are: a .500 or slightly above team that can't score unless it's hitting homeruns and certainly doesn't appear capable of a late-season surge. If it weren't for that second wildcard spot (and I still don't like the whole wildcard concept), we'd be talking about 2016 already. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Aug 24, 2015 17:31:21 GMT -5
I don't see them making the second wildcard spot, but this KC series, and the next few weeks against some fairly tough teams will tell one way or the other.
<shrugs>
Angelos has the team he wants. It's just not the team the fans want. This is what to expect until that family of baseball failures sells.
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Post by rentedmule on Aug 24, 2015 17:43:23 GMT -5
I don't see them making the second wildcard spot, but this KC series, and the next few weeks against some fairly tough teams will tell one way or the other. <shrugs> Angelos has the team he wants. It's just not the team the fans want. This is what to expect until that family of baseball failures sells. Why don't the fans purchase the club? They already own the facility. If an honest businessman charged $9.00 for a plastic cup of beer, and paid their employees millions even if they don't work, and expected the taxpayers to fund the capital expanses of the operation, I suspect you would be livid. I might enjoy seeing the fans charging $12.00 for a beer and paying all their players $50 M. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Aug 24, 2015 20:18:40 GMT -5
If an honest businessman charged $9.00 for a plastic cup of beer, and paid their employees millions even if they don't work, and expected the taxpayers to fund the capital expanses of the operation, I suspect you would be livid. Scott Walker is trying to get the taxpayers to fund a new facility for the Bucks. I wrote that this didn't make him fiscally conservative, and one of the usual Republican suspects wrote supporting it. I suppose that's what passes for fiscal conservatism in Pub circles these days. It sounds like you're saying I can't call a product bad unless I am willing to purchase the factory and do better. I will disagree. |
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Post by rentedmule on Aug 25, 2015 11:53:14 GMT -5
If an honest businessman charged $9.00 for a plastic cup of beer, and paid their employees millions even if they don't work, and expected the taxpayers to fund the capital expanses of the operation, I suspect you would be livid. Scott Walker is trying to get the taxpayers to fund a new facility for the Bucks. I wrote that this didn't make him fiscally conservative, and one of the usual Republican suspects wrote supporting it. I suppose that's what passes for fiscal conservatism in Pub circles these days. It sounds like you're saying I can't call a product bad unless I am willing to purchase the factory and do better. I will disagree. Not really. I said "if" an honest businessman did what these cartels and colluding political leaders do, you would be livid. As it is, there is NO way to dissuade the owners from this behavior, plus the insulting part is that you, the taxpayer, is obligated to pay the bills. There is No way to force the cartel to improve the quality of their product. Or, the fans can crowd up and purchase the team. I think the Packers are still owned by the citizens of Greenbay? |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Aug 25, 2015 12:34:37 GMT -5
Not really. I said "if" an honest businessman did what these cartels and colluding political leaders do, you would be livid. As it is, there is NO way to dissuade the owners from this behavior, plus the insulting part is that you, the taxpayer, is obligated to pay the bills. There is No way to force the cartel to improve the quality of their product. Or, the fans can crowd up and purchase the team. I think the Packers are still owned by the citizens of Greenbay? Okay, I stand corrected. I have objected to and continue to object to the idea that stadia should be a public works project. Every other businessman has to purchase his capital facilities, why not sports owners? Plus, I read a study a year or so ago that debunked the popularly held notion that sports franchises are a rising tide that lifts all boats. The study concluded that stadia strive to be self-contained. Add in the fact that, at ticket prices, you tend to get a lot of wealthier folks who come to the stadium and then leave - they don't look around for nearby drinking/dining opportunities (mostly younger, poorer folk do that). The only way you can steer the ship is by refusing to purchase tickets. But most sports fans are too loyal for that; if they weren't the Orioles would have gone out of business or moved years ago. I ceased purchasing season tickets years ago when I concluded that winning doesn't matter to the Angelos dynasty. But even I have been back a game or two a year since then. So I'm part of the problem. Attendance has been falling, and then along comes Buck and he does precisely what Angelos wants: he makes them just good enough to give fans some hope and bring fans back in. Around the time Buck was hired I read an article in which he described how devastated he was when Steinbrenner fired him because he couldn't bring championships home. Steinbrenner had the right desire but was (until late in his ownership) incompetent at execution. Now, Buck's got almost an idea situation for a manager: he gets a few stars (Jones, Hardy, Machado, maybe eventually Gausman) and the rest of the team is AAAA guys. He can't succeed with that mix but he can live off trying until he retires. Angelos has the wrong goal - mediocrity - and is brilliant at execution. A year or so the rumor circulated that Angelos wanted to sell the team, but keep MASN. In other words, he wanted to get rid of the cost center and keep the revenue center. There were no takers. If the sale happens that way, the next owner would truly have no money (instead of simply not wanting to spend it) and the team would hit the cellar and live there. At this point I kinda hope that when Gausman and Machado become free agents they move on. No one should spend a career laboring for a producer of mediocrity. |
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Post by rentedmule on Aug 25, 2015 13:18:09 GMT -5
Not really. I said "if" an honest businessman did what these cartels and colluding political leaders do, you would be livid. As it is, there is NO way to dissuade the owners from this behavior, plus the insulting part is that you, the taxpayer, is obligated to pay the bills. There is No way to force the cartel to improve the quality of their product. Or, the fans can crowd up and purchase the team. I think the Packers are still owned by the citizens of Greenbay? Okay, I stand corrected. I have objected to and continue to object to the idea that stadia should be a public works project. Every other businessman has to purchase his capital facilities, why not sports owners? Plus, I read a study a year or so ago that debunked the popularly held notion that sports franchises are a rising tide that lifts all boats. The study concluded that stadia strive to be self-contained. Add in the fact that, at ticket prices, you tend to get a lot of wealthier folks who come to the stadium and then leave - they don't look around for nearby drinking/dining opportunities (mostly younger, poorer folk do that). The only way you can steer the ship is by refusing to purchase tickets. But most sports fans are too loyal for that; if they weren't the Orioles would have gone out of business or moved years ago. I ceased purchasing season tickets years ago when I concluded that winning doesn't matter to the Angelos dynasty. But even I have been back a game or two a year since then. So I'm part of the problem. Attendance has been falling, and then along comes Buck and he does precisely what Angelos wants: he makes them just good enough to give fans some hope and bring fans back in. Around the time Buck was hired I read an article in which he described how devastated he was when Steinbrenner fired him because he couldn't bring championships home. Steinbrenner had the right desire but was (until late in his ownership) incompetent at execution. Now, Buck's got almost an idea situation for a manager: he gets a few stars (Jones, Hardy, Machado, maybe eventually Gausman) and the rest of the team is AAAA guys. He can't succeed with that mix but he can live off trying until he retires. Angelos has the wrong goal - mediocrity - and is brilliant at execution. A year or so the rumor circulated that Angelos wanted to sell the team, but keep MASN. In other words, he wanted to get rid of the cost center and keep the revenue center. There were no takers. If the sale happens that way, the next owner would truly have no money (instead of simply not wanting to spend it) and the team would hit the cellar and live there. At this point I kinda hope that when Gausman and Machado become free agents they move on. No one should spend a career laboring for a producer of mediocrity. The myth of sports franchises being tickets to wealth for cities is alive and well! The fans and political actors actually believe it! The owners pretend to accept the myth. Like gaming, it's an economic waste of time for the society. Yet, the fans enjoy it and Those who are employed by the activity certainly wish it to continue. Adam Smith had an explanation for this situation. Many societies manage to do a lot of things correctly and become wealthy. All those wealthy societies find ways to become ostentatious and spend down that wealth. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 1:00:23 GMT -5
Okay, I stand corrected. I have objected to and continue to object to the idea that stadia should be a public works project. Every other businessman has to purchase his capital facilities, why not sports owners? Plus, I read a study a year or so ago that debunked the popularly held notion that sports franchises are a rising tide that lifts all boats. The study concluded that stadia strive to be self-contained. Add in the fact that, at ticket prices, you tend to get a lot of wealthier folks who come to the stadium and then leave - they don't look around for nearby drinking/dining opportunities (mostly younger, poorer folk do that). The only way you can steer the ship is by refusing to purchase tickets. But most sports fans are too loyal for that; if they weren't the Orioles would have gone out of business or moved years ago. I ceased purchasing season tickets years ago when I concluded that winning doesn't matter to the Angelos dynasty. But even I have been back a game or two a year since then. So I'm part of the problem. Attendance has been falling, and then along comes Buck and he does precisely what Angelos wants: he makes them just good enough to give fans some hope and bring fans back in. Around the time Buck was hired I read an article in which he described how devastated he was when Steinbrenner fired him because he couldn't bring championships home. Steinbrenner had the right desire but was (until late in his ownership) incompetent at execution. Now, Buck's got almost an idea situation for a manager: he gets a few stars (Jones, Hardy, Machado, maybe eventually Gausman) and the rest of the team is AAAA guys. He can't succeed with that mix but he can live off trying until he retires. Angelos has the wrong goal - mediocrity - and is brilliant at execution. A year or so the rumor circulated that Angelos wanted to sell the team, but keep MASN. In other words, he wanted to get rid of the cost center and keep the revenue center. There were no takers. If the sale happens that way, the next owner would truly have no money (instead of simply not wanting to spend it) and the team would hit the cellar and live there. At this point I kinda hope that when Gausman and Machado become free agents they move on. No one should spend a career laboring for a producer of mediocrity. The myth of sports franchises being tickets to wealth for cities is alive and well! The fans and political actors actually believe it! The owners pretend to accept the myth. Like gaming, it's an economic waste of time for the society. Yet, the fans enjoy it and Those who are employed by the activity certainly wish it to continue. Adam Smith had an explanation for this situation. Many societies manage to do a lot of things correctly and become wealthy. All those wealthy societies find ways to become ostentatious and spend down that wealth. One of the biggest wastes of taxpayer money imaginable are professional sports stadiums. Shrines to the egos and wallets of a few, and duly paid for by the masses. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Sept 7, 2015 17:57:14 GMT -5
It's starting to look like they'll be looking up at everyone when the season ends. Which is what Angelos deserves, just not what the fans deserve.
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Post by rentedmule on Sept 8, 2015 5:44:30 GMT -5
It's starting to look like they'll be looking up at everyone when the season ends. Which is what Angelos deserves, just not what the fans deserve. I'm not so sympathetic as you! It only seems fair that the fans experience some disappointment since they are the ones who insist on the taxpayers being compelled to pay for the indulgence and pleasure of the fans. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Sept 8, 2015 9:09:08 GMT -5
I'm not so sympathetic as you! It only seems fair that the fans experience some disappointment since they are the ones who insist on the taxpayers being compelled to pay for the indulgence and pleasure of the fans. Unless you count their passive acceptance as "insistence" I am not sure that's true. Most fans - most PEOPLE - don't care about the ways the rich screw them; if they did they'd insist on better government. It IS their fault to the extent they keep buying tickets. |
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Post by shutout on Sept 9, 2015 23:12:00 GMT -5
Not so much buying tickets but watching on TV.
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Post by mmmbeer on Sept 10, 2015 8:08:40 GMT -5
it's always nice to beat the yankees. small consolation, but one of the few good things to happen since Aug.
Chris Davis is homering his way out of PA's checkbook.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Sept 10, 2015 14:58:25 GMT -5
Chris Davis is homering his way out of PA's checkbook. Oh, he was long ago out of Scroogelos' checkbook. Pretty much any successful player costs too much for that dried up old miser. Duquette's sought exodus contributed to a terrible off season, but let's be clear: the miser is the principal reason this club won't succeed before he dies. Because winning doesn't interest him. Now, he's in the position of having to keep Duquette (or pay him anyway) despite that terrible off season. A guy who doesn't want to work for you should be allowed to leave. He'll screw you some way if you make him stay. And Duquette has probably lost the respect of the players at this point. What a bungler Angelos is when it comes to baseball. I guess he's a good lawyer or he wouldn't have amassed the fortune that let him buy the club, but he is a terrible owner. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Oct 4, 2015 18:26:44 GMT -5
They came on strong at the very end and managed to claw their way back to a .500 record. This will allow the marketing department to claim they have gone four years without a losing record. So they've got that going for them.
But looked at in terms of last year, there's no way you can call Duquette's offseason anything except a failure. So what will they do this offseason? I think it's safe to say that no more than one of Davis, Chen, Weiters and O'Day will return in 2016. Perhaps none of them will. Which scrapheap guys will they bring in to "replace" that production? How will they react to Jones wanting to speak to Angelos? Will they try to extend Manny?
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Post by mmmbeer on Oct 4, 2015 21:24:55 GMT -5
It will be a very interesting offseason for sure. I wish the prospects down on the farm were better. It doesn't seem like they have been able to draft and develop much talent to cover the potential free agent losses.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 0:16:30 GMT -5
If nothing else, the Orioles can claim four consecutive non-losing seasons. I'm sure that will be a big part of their marketing campaign for 2016. They'd better come up with something convincing, particularly if Christian Walker or someone similar is the Opening Day first baseman should Chris Davis walk away. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Oct 5, 2015 14:35:37 GMT -5
My ideal scenario would be this: Manny Machado publicly explains that he'd like to see what the club does in the off-season before he decides whether to sign an extension. That would force the front office's hand - they would have to either make a concerted effort to improve. If they didn't, every fan would understand that winning doesn't matter to Angelos. I believe some fans understand this, but more are needed; he has to feel it in his revenue stream before he'll make changes. It wasn't until the stadium was less than half full most nights that they brought in Buck. But more is needed. Since Angelos won't do it himself, a brave player will have to force the issue.
This, of course, is a fantasy. Such a move has the potential to damage even Manny's career, and that's why it won't happen. But what alternative do fans who want quality baseball have?
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