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Post by Ranger John on Oct 28, 2013 16:42:28 GMT -5
On government controlled land where Obama won't let them drill for it. Be more specific. Where? And Obama ? How does that work? were they drilling there before Obama was elected? I imagine you are talking wilderness areas and national parks . Most Americans are against drilling there. douger pretty much covered this. But to expand on his post a little bit, most Americans don't understand how 'wilderness areas' and National Parks have been politicized specifically for the purpose of the "green" agenda. Going all the way back to Teddy Roosevelt, the government has been designating large amounts of very uninteresting wasteland as "National Monuments" in massive land-grabs. What Americans are against is putting an oil well on top of Old Faithful, on the National Mall, or in the middle of the battlefield at Gettysburg. Americans who understood a National Park like Gates of the Arctic National Park - which is the size of Belgium, and gets under 10,000 visitors a year - aren't going to much care if we drill in some never-visited corner there.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 16:47:10 GMT -5
I suggest you read up why these areas are wilderness areas and national parks in the first place, and continue to be. And what happens when they are threatened by the usual and how the usual almost always lose and why they lose so often.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 16:50:48 GMT -5
There is a ton of misinformation about national parks and wilderness areas BLM land national forest state parks wildlife refuge and all the public lands. And who supports them. By the good ranger's definition I guess everyone is a greenie.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Oct 28, 2013 16:56:07 GMT -5
There is a ton of misinformation about national parks and wilderness areas BLM land national forest state parks wildlife refuge and all the public lands. And who supports them. By the good ranger's definition I guess everyone is a greenie. Well there is a ton of misinformation, and it seems to come from lefties with an agenda. And no, everyone isn't a greenie. I personally am greener than 99% of american, and I am not a greenie.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 16:58:23 GMT -5
There is a ton of misinformation about national parks and wilderness areas BLM land national forest state parks wildlife refuge and all the public lands. And who supports them. By the good ranger's definition I guess everyone is a greenie. Well there is a ton of misinformation, and it seems to come from lefties with an agenda. And no, everyone isn't a greenie. I personally am greener than 99% of american, and I am not a greenie. Opinions all. Thanks!
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 28, 2013 17:10:31 GMT -5
I suggest you read up why these areas are wilderness areas and national parks in the first place, and continue to be. And what happens when they are threatened by the usual and how the usual almost always lose and why they lose so often. Ok, moses. You tell me why we've got a National Park the size of Belguim that gets about 4,000 visitors every year, and which is only accessible by air-taxi or on foot. The purported purpose of GOTA is to preserve wilderness. A shale oil well pad site is about 5 acres. GOTA is 13,238 square miles. At 640 acres to a square mile, that's about 8.5 million acres. In other words, you could put in almost 17,000 shale oil wells, and only cover 1% of the park. A park, that for all intents and purposes, is never visited.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Oct 28, 2013 17:20:26 GMT -5
Well there is a ton of misinformation, and it seems to come from lefties with an agenda. And no, everyone isn't a greenie. I personally am greener than 99% of american, and I am not a greenie. Opinions all. Thanks! You are welcome. Remember everything posted on these forums including most links are opinions.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 28, 2013 17:20:35 GMT -5
There is a ton of misinformation about national parks and wilderness areas BLM land national forest state parks wildlife refuge and all the public lands. And who supports them. By the good ranger's definition I guess everyone is a greenie. Well, there are greenies, and then there are greenies. Here in PA, State Forest land (and in some rare exceptions even State Park land) are open for oil and gas exploration. The state forests are certified 'sustainable' and the state park system won the Gold Medal award for being the best state park system in the country in 2009. See, real greenies understand that oil and gas exploration - including fracking - can be done in an environmentally sound manner, with a negligible long-term impact on the land, for the benefit of humanity. And in the case of PA, where royalties from oil and gas exploration fund the state park and forest systems - to the benefit of parks and forests. Then there are the 'watermellons' (green on the outside, red on the inside) who think of humans as a virus that must be exterminated, and who either follow the Prophet AlGore, or cynically use AlGore's faith as a path to world domination.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Oct 28, 2013 17:21:26 GMT -5
I suggest you read up why these areas are wilderness areas and national parks in the first place, and continue to be. And what happens when they are threatened by the usual and how the usual almost always lose and why they lose so often. Ok, moses. You tell me why we've got a National Park the size of Belguim that gets about 4,000 visitors every year, and which is only accessible by air-taxi or on foot. The purported purpose of GOTA is to preserve wilderness. A shale oil well pad site is about 5 acres. GOTA is 13,238 square miles. At 640 acres to a square mile, that's about 8.5 million acres. In other words, you could put in almost 17,000 shale oil wells, and only cover 1% of the park. A park, that for all intents and purposes, is never visited. Lets not forget that what animals do live there would not be bothered much either.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 28, 2013 17:27:23 GMT -5
Ok, moses. You tell me why we've got a National Park the size of Belguim that gets about 4,000 visitors every year, and which is only accessible by air-taxi or on foot. The purported purpose of GOTA is to preserve wilderness. A shale oil well pad site is about 5 acres. GOTA is 13,238 square miles. At 640 acres to a square mile, that's about 8.5 million acres. In other words, you could put in almost 17,000 shale oil wells, and only cover 1% of the park. A park, that for all intents and purposes, is never visited. Lets not forget that what animals do live there would not be bothered much either. Indeed. Once the wells are constructed, there's not much to even notice, let alone be bothered by. We put up things like fire towers, and maintenance facilities, and restrooms in most of our parks that are far more obtrusive than a completed gas well.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:30:16 GMT -5
Well you guys have all the answers then. Obviously everyone should disagrees with you is just wrong! And you're just right! I'm going bet if there was oil there anyway it won't last that long. The oil companies have great freedom up here. They have huge huge chunks of land they already drill on. I'm betting you guys are going to lose this debate anyway. You should see the opposition the pebble gold mine. Sportsmen greenies natives all kinds banding together and winning.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:30:44 GMT -5
Lets not forget that what animals do live there would not be bothered much either. Indeed. Once the wells are constructed, there's not much to even notice, let alone be bothered by. We put up things like fire towers, and maintenance facilities, and restrooms in most of our parks that are far more obtrusive than a completed gas well. What parks?
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Post by douger on Oct 28, 2013 17:33:11 GMT -5
Well you guys have all the answers then. Obviously everyone should disagrees with you is just wrong! And you're just right! I'm going bet if there was oil there anyway it won't last that long. The oil companies have great freedom up here. They have huge huge chunks of land they already drill on. I'm betting you guys are going to lose this debate anyway. You should see the opposition the pebble gold mine. Sportsmen greenies natives all kinds banding together and winning. You seem to have all the answers yourself, jed.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:33:15 GMT -5
Have you seen the local opposition to the gas wells propping up all over the west? On blm lands? Opposition from ranchers hunters and other mainstream conservatives. Did you know we send lots of our own natural resources to foreign countries? Add it up gentlemen.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:38:40 GMT -5
Well you guys have all the answers then. Obviously everyone should disagrees with you is just wrong! And you're just right! I'm going bet if there was oil there anyway it won't last that long. The oil companies have great freedom up here. They have huge huge chunks of land they already drill on. I'm betting you guys are going to lose this debate anyway. You should see the opposition the pebble gold mine. Sportsmen greenies natives all kinds banding together and winning. You seem to have all the answers yourself, jed. Well I don't have to try to rebute anything . That would be convenient for you . I could just recite some poetry perhaps.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Oct 28, 2013 17:38:55 GMT -5
Well you guys have all the answers then. Obviously everyone should disagrees with you is just wrong! And you're just right! I'm going bet if there was oil there anyway it won't last that long. The oil companies have great freedom up here. They have huge huge chunks of land they already drill on. I'm betting you guys are going to lose this debate anyway. You should see the opposition the pebble gold mine. Sportsmen greenies natives all kinds banding together and winning. Well when the pubs get control of the house, senate, and presidency we shall see.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:39:42 GMT -5
Well you guys have all the answers then. Obviously everyone should disagrees with you is just wrong! And you're just right! I'm going bet if there was oil there anyway it won't last that long. The oil companies have great freedom up here. They have huge huge chunks of land they already drill on. I'm betting you guys are going to lose this debate anyway. You should see the opposition the pebble gold mine. Sportsmen greenies natives all kinds banding together and winning. Well when the pubs get control of the house, senate, and presidency we shall see. I can believe that.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 28, 2013 17:40:12 GMT -5
Indeed. Once the wells are constructed, there's not much to even notice, let alone be bothered by. We put up things like fire towers, and maintenance facilities, and restrooms in most of our parks that are far more obtrusive than a completed gas well. What parks? moses, THIS is what a completed gas well looks like: It about twice the size of a fire hydrant. Do you really need me to post photos of a park restroom for comparison?
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Oct 28, 2013 17:40:28 GMT -5
You seem to have all the answers yourself, jed. Well I don't have to try to rebute anything . That would be convenient for you . I could just recite some poetry perhaps. I don't know if you are Kevin/Jed/Phil but you are letting us know your posting style. You really should hope that Joe Friday/HST2 moves over carrying the leftie load all by yourself will stress you out.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:45:59 GMT -5
Well I don't have to try to rebute anything . That would be convenient for you . I could just recite some poetry perhaps. I don't know if you are Kevin/Jed/Phil but you are letting us know your posting style. You really should hope that Joe Friday/HST2 moves over carrying the leftie load all by yourself will stress you out. This a really odd post. Shrugs.... I go on other forums . Lost of people like you . It bums them out when they find that the other person really doesn't care what you think about them, period. Call me whatever name you want . It's obviously a big part of your life.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:50:17 GMT -5
moses, THIS is what a completed gas well looks like: It about twice the size of a fire hydrant. Do you really need me to post photos of a park restroom for comparison? Lmao I lived in gas well country , you obviously have NO clue. It's laughable what you think you know. I've hunted around the damn things. Lol Listen, don't believe a word I say. Argue with me every step. It's your ignorance not mine.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 28, 2013 17:55:15 GMT -5
moses, THIS is what a completed gas well looks like: It about twice the size of a fire hydrant. Do you really need me to post photos of a park restroom for comparison? Lmao I lived in gas well country , you obviously have NO clue. It's laughable what you think you know. I've hunted around the damn things. Lol Listen, don't believe a word I say. Argue with me every step. It's your ignorance not mine. Sure moses. If that's what you need to believe. Tell you what, why don't YOU post a photo of a completed gas well? They're all over the internet.
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Post by douger on Oct 28, 2013 17:58:09 GMT -5
Lmao I lived in gas well country , you obviously have NO clue. It's laughable what you think you know. I've hunted around the damn things. Lol Listen, don't believe a word I say. Argue with me every step. It's your ignorance not mine. Sure moses. If that's what you need to believe. Tell you what, why don't YOU post a photo of a completed gas well? They're all over the internet. C'mon. You know jed doesn't do that.
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Post by Moses on Oct 28, 2013 17:59:17 GMT -5
Lmao I lived in gas well country , you obviously have NO clue. It's laughable what you think you know. I've hunted around the damn things. Lol Listen, don't believe a word I say. Argue with me every step. It's your ignorance not mine. Sure moses. If that's what you need to believe. Tell you what, why don't YOU post a photo of a completed gas well? They're all over the internet. So you don't know do you. Either your picture is a consummate photo of all gas wells or it's not . I'm not going to sit here and argue if I m liar or not. But you're dead wrong and the picture you posted is a joke. Save us both trouble. Get on yahoo search gas wells and select IMAGES. Tell me what you see.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 28, 2013 18:02:38 GMT -5
Sure moses. If that's what you need to believe. Tell you what, why don't YOU post a photo of a completed gas well? They're all over the internet. So you don't know do you. Either your picture is a consummate photo of all gas wells or it's not . I'm not going to sit here and argue if I m liar or not. But you're dead wrong and the picture you posted is a joke. Save us both trouble. Get on yahoo search gas wells and select IMAGES. Tell me what you see. Actually, moses, that's exactly what I did. I've seen them in person too... and it's pretty typical. But, if you'd like to post a photo to refute it, feel free.
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