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Post by redleg on Nov 7, 2017 21:11:35 GMT -5
This guy has a history of violence. He was convicted of domestic violence by the Air Force, and they failed to record it in the system, so he was able to buy firearms. That was the incompetence of your vaunted Federal government. What laws can we pass that would stop this sort of insanity, especially when those tasked with enforcing those laws ignore them? Until we do know enough about either one, anything we do would be pointless. Just another attack on the liberty of the law abiding. Since there are legal restrictions on who can vote, should there be more thorough checks on people before they are allowed to vote? How about a mental health check, which would weed out anyone that would vote Democrat, because that is a sure sign of mental illness? Should we limit how many books one can own? How about what web sites one can visit? Do you support limits on who an individual can associate with, and when he can do so? How about we limit petitioning the government? Limit what one can write? We have a problem and it's the war on Christianity. Christianity defined the morals of this society until the Marxists got enough power to start removing it from the public sphere. When I was growing up, the only question asked when we stored our shotguns or .22s in our lockers at school was "is it unloaded?" We didn't have these issues until the Left destroyed all moral direction, and replaced God with video games, pornography, and the parasite mentality so obnoxiously on display today. You keep whining that conservatives want to "take us back to the 1950's", but we didn't have brain damaged, parasitic animals shooting up churches just because he doesn't like his MIL. The Left, specifically the Party of the KKK, has given license to these lunatics by their constant denigration, hatred, and bombastic tirades against Christians specifically, and all religion, except Islam, generally. They can't abide any thought that doesn't further their depraved, dehumanizing agenda, and attempts to install a dictatorship here. Revisionist History. There were mass shooters back in the '40's and 50's www.smithsonianmag.com/history/story-first-mass-murder-us-history-180956927/Really? How many? And were we having them every month or so? How many of them were Muslims?
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Post by redleg on Nov 7, 2017 21:12:36 GMT -5
He wasn't able to legally buy them because of his conviction on domestic violence. Period. Regardless of his discharge. There's plenty ways around it. We've had convicted murderers get their guns back. www.vpc.org/studies/felons.htmYou go to the VPC for your info? The most corrupt, illegitimate anti American anti firearm site we have?
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Post by redleg on Nov 7, 2017 21:14:03 GMT -5
People convicted of domestic violence are generally prohibited from owning or carrying a gun. Just like this guy. There are three ways these people get guns: either the authorities fail to report the disqualification to the appropriate authorities (this case, and Dylan Roof), or the weapons are stolen or purchased on the black market. Laws do not (and can not) prevent people bent on criminal violence from obtaining a gun. Criminals, by definition, do not obey the law. Laws, can however, prevent innocent people from defending themselves. And Cho. Looks like they can't manage the laws we already have, so let's make more laws they can't handle.
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Post by palealeman on Nov 7, 2017 21:15:02 GMT -5
Absolutely, RJ. Put the blame elsewhere -- the clerk who forgot to send in a disposition, the guy at the gun show who can sell under the table without any sort of background check, probably the poor people who got in the way of the bullets!!
I never said to criminalize anything. I did say that I see no need for assault weapons. Someone wants to use one to blow away a few sheets of paper? Fine, maybe a range could rent a few of them. But to keep in a house? Why? A lot of people decry that level of violence.
Very few people in this country, and even less among our politicians, have the courage to stand up to the NRA. So, until more and more people finally say enough, until more and more people stand up to the NRA and our spineless politicians, we'll continue to have events like those in Las Vegas, and like just happened in Texas. I hope you can continue to live with it in what is the most violent country in the civilized world. And take note that the most recent incident didn't happen in one of the allegedly "Liberal" cities that you mock. It happened in conservative Texas. I just hope the next several incidents -- and there probably will be several more in the next few months -- continue to happen in red states.
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Post by redleg on Nov 7, 2017 22:11:07 GMT -5
That can be defined in the law. For most cases a clerk of the court would be the responsible party. We’re not even making our existing gun laws work. Just this step would have made it harder for this shooter and Dylan Roof to obtain a gun. What you’re talking about is banning guns because they look scary to you. That’s just childish. Especially given that it was just this sort of weapon that stopped the shooter in Texas. This was tried before, too. It didn’t accomplish anything. No, RJ, not because they look scary, because they're not needed in the general population. I've fired an M16, I've qualified with an M16. I know what they can do. Why does anyone need an assault rifle? Home protection? You're better off with a shotgun, and you know that. And I'm not sure that another weapon did stop the shooter. He left the church and was fired at. Looks like he may have been leaving. What stopped him was an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound to his head. Of course, as I've said, the NRA will oppose anything that even remotely seems like common sense, and since the politicians in DC are so fearful of the NRA and most are in the NRA's pocket, nothing will happen again . . . and again . . . and again . . . . Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. An AR is NOT an "assault rifle". It's a semi automatic firearm, no different than any other semiauto firearm. As for "why do they need it"? Why do you need 3 newspapers? Why not confine it all to one? Basically, you are saying that because it scares you, and YOU see no need for them, they should be outlawed. He was hit twice before leaving. That's what prompted him to leave. If he hadn't been hit, why leave? There was no one there armed that could have stopped him. Nothing you have proposed is even in the same universe as "common sense". Nothing you have proposed is new, it's all been tried before. And didn't work. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Which is why every Democrat is clinically insane. You all demand that we keep trying totalitarian Socialism, even though it's failed, and failed spectacularly, everywhere it's been tried. None of the proposed "gun" control laws coming from the Party of the KKK, would have stopped any of the shooters. The NRA is actually one of the smallest contributors to political campaigns. They are miniscule compared to the criminals in the SEIU, AFT, and other unions that buy Party of the KKK pols like popcorn.
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Post by redleg on Nov 7, 2017 22:15:00 GMT -5
The answer is to repeal and rewrite the 2nd Amendment. It was obviously written by a bunch of old and drunk white men. That was the same convention that gave us the 3/5th's Compromise. Obviously they weren't thinking straight. You mean the one that kept the slave states from dominating the government? I guess history is just another one of those things, of which the list is almost infinite, that you have no idea about. As for "repealing and rewriting" the 2A, go ahead. See how many states you can get to go along with your totalitarian power grab. And, by the way, since our government exists only on the authority devolved to it by the people, if you prohibit a class of firearms from the people, you also prohibit it from the government. So, your sacred Federal police, the military, and the Secret Service, will be relegated to bolt action firearms.
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Post by redleg on Nov 7, 2017 22:15:41 GMT -5
Only the Party of the KKK and their accomplices, the RINOs are defending the system.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 8, 2017 9:15:45 GMT -5
Absolutely, RJ. Put the blame elsewhere -- the clerk who forgot to send in a disposition, the guy at the gun show who can sell under the table without any sort of background check, probably the poor people who got in the way of the bullets!! If that's your thinking, we may as well scrap background checks entirely. They can't stop disqualified people from buying guns if the reports aren't being made to the database. Of ALL the gun control proposals that have been made, tightening reporting would have actually done something to keep weapons out of the hands of 2 of the recent shooters. The answer to "why?" is that this is still a free country. It's not the government's place to say the people can't have "x." If it can articulate a reason why a specific person can't have "x" in court, fine, due process has had it's turn. This is the same reason our drug laws keep failing too. Prohibition doesn't work. So, a couple of clerks failed to report Dylan Roof and Devin Kelley to the appropriate authorities, thus allowing them to purchase weapons, and you think the problem is the NRA, and their instructor who showed up and interrupted Kelley? Come on man. Wake up. The NRA did more to stop Kelley than the government that dropped the ball.
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Post by palealeman on Nov 8, 2017 9:40:20 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you?
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Post by bobloblaw on Nov 8, 2017 9:49:31 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you? The Gun Nutters have already forgotten the angry white guy murdering those people in the Colorado WalMart. He didn't kill enough people. I think they are rooting for a new record. They won't bat an eye until someone shoots up a NASCAR race.
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Post by bobloblaw on Nov 8, 2017 9:52:40 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you? LOL That is Nothing. Try getting your Arse handed to you from an Angry Drunken Dwarf every day. Now that is real suffering.
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Post by redleg on Nov 8, 2017 10:01:53 GMT -5
Absolutely, RJ. Put the blame elsewhere -- the clerk who forgot to send in a disposition, the guy at the gun show who can sell under the table without any sort of background check, probably the poor people who got in the way of the bullets!! I never said to criminalize anything. I did say that I see no need for assault weapons. Someone wants to use one to blow away a few sheets of paper? Fine, maybe a range could rent a few of them. But to keep in a house? Why? A lot of people decry that level of violence. Very few people in this country, and even less among our politicians, have the courage to stand up to the NRA. So, until more and more people finally say enough, until more and more people stand up to the NRA and our spineless politicians, we'll continue to have events like those in Las Vegas, and like just happened in Texas. I hope you can continue to live with it in what is the most violent country in the civilized world. And take note that the most recent incident didn't happen in one of the allegedly "Liberal" cities that you mock. It happened in conservative Texas. I just hope the next several incidents -- and there probably will be several more in the next few months -- continue to happen in red states. "The guy at the gunshow" is simply another lie. With extremely few exceptions, all the sellers at gun shows are dealers, who still have to do background checks before selling. It's simply more propaganda aimed at the inbreds and the parasites that don't have any idea what the world is like outside their Mommie's basements. The "level of violence" is exclusively bred, nourished, and promoted by the Left. Protection of Muslim terrorists, censoring of the news, to make sure that no hint of the Leftist agenda fueling the violence, all are reasons an AR is absolutely needed 'in the house'. Since the Left has declared open, violent war against anyone that dares think differently than what they have decreed is "correct", self protection is far more important now than ever before. How many Party of the KKK parasites have stood up to antifa, BLM, ELF, ALF, Sierra Club, or any of the other actual terrorist organizations that own and control the Party of the KKK? The only connection the NRA has had to any of the mass shootings at all is that the guy that shot the shooter is a member. The NRA terrorizes you because they stand for individual responsibility, courage, and national pride. Those are a cross to a vampire to you, because you demand subjugation, servitude, and serfdom for everyone. The idea of an individual being able to defend himself is an anathema to you, because it means they are less dependent on government. It happened in Texas because that's where the MIL lived. It was your omniscient government that failed to enforce it's own laws that allowed it to happen. The Puppet's Air Force allowed it to happen. Of course you do. Having Party of the KKK supporters shooting real Americans always gives you a hard on, because you are too cowardly to bother protecting yourself, and it would take away the genocide against blacks happening in Communist enclaves like Chicago and B'more.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 8, 2017 10:03:25 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you? WTF did you just read? It wasn’t my post. The government needs to do a better job of enforcing existing laws. Kelley and Roof were both armed because of bureaucratic failure. While I appreciate that you believe adding more failing bureaucracy on top of existing failing bureaucracy will DO SOMETHING!!! reality suggests otherwise. Why do liberals always think the solution to ineffective to downright malicious government is always more government? The NRA did far more to stop Kelley than the government.
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Post by redleg on Nov 8, 2017 10:04:03 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you? Until we have Democrat control, and silence the hate, violence, racism, and treason that is part and parcel of the Party of the KKK, we will continue having Party of the KKK useful idiots shooting the unarmed and the innocent.
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Post by redleg on Nov 8, 2017 10:05:37 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you? The Gun Nutters have already forgotten the angry white guy murdering those people in the Colorado WalMart. He didn't kill enough people. I think they are rooting for a new record. They won't bat an eye until someone shoots up a NASCAR race. Another gun free zone, set up by Leftists, just to allow more Party of the KKK lunatics free targets. Of course, it's the Left stoking all the violence, because they can't abide a real America President rather than a Muslim Communist, or a treasonous criminal.
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Post by redleg on Nov 8, 2017 10:06:43 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you? WTF did you just read? It wasn’t my post. The government needs to do a better job of enforcing existing laws. Kelley and Roof were both armed because of bureaucratic failure. While I appreciate that you believe adding more failing bureaucracy on top of existing failing bureaucracy will DO SOMETHING!!! reality suggests otherwise. Why do liberals always think the solution to ineffective to downright malicious government is always more government? The NRA did far more to stop Kelley than the government. That's his problem. Unless it's the government doing it, it's illegitimate, and should be illegal. He's a born serf.
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Post by bobloblaw on Nov 8, 2017 10:24:07 GMT -5
The Gun Nutters have already forgotten the angry white guy murdering those people in the Colorado WalMart. He didn't kill enough people. I think they are rooting for a new record. They won't bat an eye until someone shoots up a NASCAR race. Another gun free zone, set up by Leftists, just to allow more Party of the KKK lunatics free targets. Of course, it's the Left stoking all the violence, because they can't abide a real America President rather than a Muslim Communist, or a treasonous criminal. LOL WalMart is a "gun free zone" You're losing it old man.
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Post by redleg on Nov 8, 2017 12:15:04 GMT -5
Another gun free zone, set up by Leftists, just to allow more Party of the KKK lunatics free targets. Of course, it's the Left stoking all the violence, because they can't abide a real America President rather than a Muslim Communist, or a treasonous criminal. LOL WalMart is a "gun free zone" You're losing it old man. In Denver and surrounding suburbs, most are.
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Post by palealeman on Nov 9, 2017 13:52:53 GMT -5
So you're content with the status quo, RJ. Got it. I hope the number of people killed in next months's mass murder is acceptable to you. How many dead is too many for you? WTF did you just read? It wasn’t my post. The government needs to do a better job of enforcing existing laws. Kelley and Roof were both armed because of bureaucratic failure. While I appreciate that you believe adding more failing bureaucracy on top of existing failing bureaucracy will DO SOMETHING!!! reality suggests otherwise. Why do liberals always think the solution to ineffective to downright malicious government is always more government? The NRA did far more to stop Kelley than the government. I absolutely read what you posted, RJ. The government needs to do a better job with record keeping, and had they done so 2 recent mass shootings might have been avoided. Might have. And only the 2 you note. Not too many others, as most of the weapons were purchased legally. And the NRA may have done something in the most recent event. But in the aftermath of every mass shooting, the NRA's out there talking about the Second Amendment and the unbridled freedom to own as many guns as you want to. What legislation has the NRA supported? There was some talk about the NRA being OK with executive rules about bump stocks, but they don't want any legislation on that subject, nor much of any legislation that would in any way be seen as a bar to purchasing or owning any sort of firearm. So, RJ, you think that better record keeping and enforcing of existing laws need to be done, but not much else. In other words, you're more or less content with the status quo, which is what I said originally. And the status quo will lead to more and continued mass shootings, and probably more frequent mass shootings. And you're fine with that. Glad to know where you stand.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 9, 2017 14:04:41 GMT -5
WTF did you just read? It wasn’t my post. The government needs to do a better job of enforcing existing laws. Kelley and Roof were both armed because of bureaucratic failure. While I appreciate that you believe adding more failing bureaucracy on top of existing failing bureaucracy will DO SOMETHING!!! reality suggests otherwise. Why do liberals always think the solution to ineffective to downright malicious government is always more government? The NRA did far more to stop Kelley than the government. I absolutely read what you posted, RJ. The government needs to do a better job with record keeping, and had they done so 2 recent mass shootings might have been avoided. Might have. And only the 2 you note. Not too many others, as most of the weapons were purchased legally. And the NRA may have done something in the most recent event. But in the aftermath of every mass shooting, the NRA's out there talking about the Second Amendment and the unbridled freedom to own as many guns as you want to. What legislation has the NRA supported? There was some talk about the NRA being OK with executive rules about bump stocks, but they don't want any legislation on that subject, nor much of any legislation that would in any way be seen as a bar to purchasing or owning any sort of firearm. So, RJ, you think that better record keeping and enforcing of existing laws need to be done, but not much else. In other words, you're more or less content with the status quo, which is what I said originally. And the status quo will lead to more and continued mass shootings, and probably more frequent mass shootings. And you're fine with that. Glad to know where you stand. I haven’t seen any other proposals that would address your concerns. Banning “assault weapons” was a fiasco when it was tried. I’m going to make this simple: put up, or shut up. What would you propose that would actually address this problem? Background checks are already in place, and they cover almost every legal sale. They didn’t stop Kelley or Roof because the government effed up and didn’t report people. They didn’t stop Adam Lanza because he essentially stole his weapons. They don’t stop street criminals because they deal in stolen guns. We can address future Kelley’s and Roofs by tightening up reporting. Banning “bump stocks” probably won’t accomplish much, including reducing their number because they’re easy to make for someone determined to do so. But whatever. So what’s left is confiscation. Do you have the guts to man up and advocate for the government coming to get all “unnecessary” weapons? Right now, all I see from you is to further empower the bureaucrats who screwed up and let Kelley and Roof arm themselves, and take the weapon out of the hands of the NRA instructor who stopped Kelley. And that “solution” is far too stupid and idiotic to bother responding to any further.
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Post by palealeman on Nov 9, 2017 16:20:17 GMT -5
So, again, RJ, you're comfortable with the status quo and continued mass shootings. Got it.
What about licensing? We license people before they can legally drive a car. Why not here too? There are already classes in place to do this sort of thing, so nothing new needed here other than perhaps expansion of capacity. Require classes in safe handling, storage, actually using a weapon. Require it for all guns, both handguns and rifles. As long as a course meets basic criteria, its results can be accepted and it can issue a license. Require the license to be shown before any purchase of any gun. Background checks are completed at that point, as now.
Would it help? Maybe, maybe not. There's only one way to find out. But it does do one thing you anti-government types will like: it doesn't increase bureaucracy, it uses existing services in the general population.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 9, 2017 17:17:26 GMT -5
So, again, RJ, you're comfortable with the status quo and continued mass shootings. Got it. What about licensing? We license people before they can legally drive a car. Why not here too? There are already classes in place to do this sort of thing, so nothing new needed here other than perhaps expansion of capacity. Require classes in safe handling, storage, actually using a weapon. Require it for all guns, both handguns and rifles. As long as a course meets basic criteria, its results can be accepted and it can issue a license. Require the license to be shown before any purchase of any gun. Background checks are completed at that point, as now. Would it help? Maybe, maybe not. There's only one way to find out. But it does do one thing you anti-government types will like: it doesn't increase bureaucracy, it uses existing services in the general population. So you want to teach potential mass shooters how to properly and safely store their weapons, and to SHOOT BETTER!?! Yeah. You're not even close to being serious.
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Post by bobloblaw on Nov 10, 2017 10:01:29 GMT -5
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Post by bobloblaw on Nov 10, 2017 10:13:51 GMT -5
^^^^ Why My Stupid Ass was never meant to be Born...^^^^
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Post by palealeman on Nov 10, 2017 11:50:43 GMT -5
So, again, RJ, you're comfortable with the status quo and continued mass shootings. Got it. What about licensing? We license people before they can legally drive a car. Why not here too? There are already classes in place to do this sort of thing, so nothing new needed here other than perhaps expansion of capacity. Require classes in safe handling, storage, actually using a weapon. Require it for all guns, both handguns and rifles. As long as a course meets basic criteria, its results can be accepted and it can issue a license. Require the license to be shown before any purchase of any gun. Background checks are completed at that point, as now. Would it help? Maybe, maybe not. There's only one way to find out. But it does do one thing you anti-government types will like: it doesn't increase bureaucracy, it uses existing services in the general population. So you want to teach potential mass shooters how to properly and safely store their weapons, and to SHOOT BETTER!?! Yeah. You're not even close to being serious. Well, then, maybe licensing, regular renewals, and requiring a mental health assessment regularly.
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