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Post by aboutwell on May 18, 2018 11:37:16 GMT -5
8-10 individuals killed in Santa Fe, TX high school...
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Post by Ranger John on May 18, 2018 11:44:55 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on May 18, 2018 14:24:11 GMT -5
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Post by kemmer on May 19, 2018 0:42:39 GMT -5
Um... we really shouldn't reduce a complex phenomenon to political squabbles.
Let's just look at teens killing each other in schools, since the OP references the latest event. Bear with me, for I am about to say something that sounds improbable, even impossible. Most will dismiss it without a second thought, or even a first thought. I'm going to say it anyway:
This is merely the latest teen fad.
Yes, a teen fad, no different than wearing bobby socks and penny loafers, or hanging out at the local drive-in. Consider the path from childhood through adolescence to adulthood. It is about leaving the family, and melding with the larger, peer group. "Peer pressure" has negative connotations, but given that humans are social animals designed to live in large groups, "peer pressure" is likely an evolutionary survival mechanism. Mostly, fear of embarrassment keeps us adults from indulging in our less than respectable urges. Plus, seriously, most adults follow fads and fashions, too. (Drive around and tell me you can't pretty much date the decade each house you see was built.)
Teens, of course, are still working through the "being my own self" thing, whilst simultaneously distancing themselves from "mom's apron strings" PLUS seeking "peer acclaim". (This is why no sensible old person wants to be 16, again... 26, maybe, but not 16.)
Sometimes, teen fads go wrong. Hell, maybe always, for some teens. In my youth, there was street-drag racing, heavy drinking, going for joy rides in stolen cars. For the real bad-asses, there was writing the F-word on walls... something no longer available now that using cuss words has become a mark of "super-cool sophistication" for a certain segment of the (now approaching geriatric) Hollywood crowd.
Anyone out there remember the "anorexia crisis" of a few years back? It was all over the news. Teen girls-- some said as many as 3%, think about that, three out of every 100, 30 in every high school-- were starving themselves TO DEATH.
Hmmm... maybe those girls were just doing exactly what teens have always done.
And, maybe they stopped, just because being anorexic is no longer "the thing to do." Maybe, the school shootings fad will pass. (Haven't heard much about "going postal" lately.) Maybe, we should just sigh, and wait it out. I really have no solution. I just worry that the hysteria in the news coverage will drive a few more borderline teens over the edge.
See also: becoming transgendered, males being "emo", cyber-bullying, the opioid "crisis", et al. *sigh*
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Post by Ranger John on May 19, 2018 9:19:40 GMT -5
Um... we really shouldn't reduce a complex phenomenon to political squabbles. Let's just look at teens killing each other in schools, since the OP references the latest event. Bear with me, for I am about to say something that sounds improbable, even impossible. Most will dismiss it without a second thought, or even a first thought. I'm going to say it anyway: This is merely the latest teen fad. Yes, a teen fad, no different than wearing bobby socks and penny loafers, or hanging out at the local drive-in. Consider the path from childhood through adolescence to adulthood. It is about leaving the family, and melding with the larger, peer group. "Peer pressure" has negative connotations, but given that humans are social animals designed to live in large groups, "peer pressure" is likely an evolutionary survival mechanism. Mostly, fear of embarrassment keeps us adults from indulging in our less than respectable urges. Plus, seriously, most adults follow fads and fashions, too. (Drive around and tell me you can't pretty much date the decade each house you see was built.) Teens, of course, are still working through the "being my own self" thing, whilst simultaneously distancing themselves from "mom's apron strings" PLUS seeking "peer acclaim". (This is why no sensible old person wants to be 16, again... 26, maybe, but not 16.) Sometimes, teen fads go wrong. Hell, maybe always, for some teens. In my youth, there was street-drag racing, heavy drinking, going for joy rides in stolen cars. For the real bad-asses, there was writing the F-word on walls... something no longer available now that using cuss words has become a mark of "super-cool sophistication" for a certain segment of the (now approaching geriatric) Hollywood crowd. Anyone out there remember the "anorexia crisis" of a few years back? It was all over the news. Teen girls-- some said as many as 3%, think about that, three out of every 100, 30 in every high school-- were starving themselves TO DEATH. Hmmm... maybe those girls were just doing exactly what teens have always done. And, maybe they stopped, just because being anorexic is no longer "the thing to do." Maybe, the school shootings fad will pass. (Haven't heard much about "going postal" lately.) Maybe, we should just sigh, and wait it out. I really have no solution. I just worry that the hysteria in the news coverage will drive a few more borderline teens over the edge. See also: becoming transgendered, males being "emo", cyber-bullying, the opioid "crisis", et al. *sigh* David French wrote an article along these lines I think you'll enjoy: www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/His theory is that this is essentially a very slow-moving riot. Every one of these incidents lowers the bar and makes it more acceptable for the next loser. |
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Post by aboutwell on May 19, 2018 10:58:52 GMT -5
I agree, Kemmer... in fact, all the school shootings this year are isolated instances compared to all the schools we have in the USA... we just hear about them more these days because of the 24-hour news cycle and the internet... (and the news loves these kind of things... not the deaths, mind you... but the event)... we know about these things "almost as they happen"... and there's nothing we could, or are going to, do to stop them from happening... problem is, the innocent loss of life... it's just horrendous that so many innocent lives can be snuffed out in such a short period of time by someone who has lost all respect for themselves and human life in general... goes berserk...
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Post by palealeman on May 19, 2018 11:28:36 GMT -5
The fact remains that we've seen 22 school shootings so far this year. This year. The incident gets national press coverage. The President makes a statement about how reform is needed . . . and then does nothing. The regressives in Congress, bought and paid for by the NRA, refuse to do anything, refuse to consider even common sense ideas that could lessen the shootings -- that could reduce the violence. People cry, children are buried, and politicians do nothing.
Anybody want to guess when the next school shooting or mass shooting will occur?
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Post by breakingbad on May 19, 2018 12:44:40 GMT -5
I agree, Kemmer... in fact, all the school shootings this year are isolated instances compared to all the schools we have in the USA... we just hear about them more these days because of the 24-hour news cycle and the internet... (and the news loves these kind of things... not the deaths, mind you... but the event)... we know about these things "almost as they happen"... and there's nothing we could, or are going to, do to stop them from happening... problem is, the innocent loss of life... it's just horrendous that so many innocent lives can be snuffed out in such a short period of time when someone who has lost all respect themselves and human life goes berserk... aboutwell, I'm going to call you out on this post. I think it's one of the best things you have ever written on here. I think this is one of the contributors to this rash of school shootings. There are many causes, but the continuous bombardment of information and bad news is really taking a toll on our collective mental health. My bipolar son once said to me, "Look around at all the craziness in this world. How can they say I'm the crazy one?" |
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Post by aboutwell on May 19, 2018 14:48:02 GMT -5
Thank you, Breakingbad... I have maintained this same position for many years...
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Post by aboutwell on May 19, 2018 14:53:54 GMT -5
Palealeman... as you know, the NRA is a very powerful lobbying group... many voters vote based on recommendations and endorsements of and by the NRA... politicians know this and bow down to them to get those votes and those campaign donations... I think there should be some limitations on such lobbying and campaign contributions by such groups... but, instead... the door for even more lobbying was opened even further just a few years ago...
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Post by redleg on May 19, 2018 21:31:18 GMT -5
Um... we really shouldn't reduce a complex phenomenon to political squabbles. Let's just look at teens killing each other in schools, since the OP references the latest event. Bear with me, for I am about to say something that sounds improbable, even impossible. Most will dismiss it without a second thought, or even a first thought. I'm going to say it anyway: This is merely the latest teen fad. Yes, a teen fad, no different than wearing bobby socks and penny loafers, or hanging out at the local drive-in. Consider the path from childhood through adolescence to adulthood. It is about leaving the family, and melding with the larger, peer group. "Peer pressure" has negative connotations, but given that humans are social animals designed to live in large groups, "peer pressure" is likely an evolutionary survival mechanism. Mostly, fear of embarrassment keeps us adults from indulging in our less than respectable urges. Plus, seriously, most adults follow fads and fashions, too. (Drive around and tell me you can't pretty much date the decade each house you see was built.) Teens, of course, are still working through the "being my own self" thing, whilst simultaneously distancing themselves from "mom's apron strings" PLUS seeking "peer acclaim". (This is why no sensible old person wants to be 16, again... 26, maybe, but not 16.) Sometimes, teen fads go wrong. Hell, maybe always, for some teens. In my youth, there was street-drag racing, heavy drinking, going for joy rides in stolen cars. For the real bad-asses, there was writing the F-word on walls... something no longer available now that using cuss words has become a mark of "super-cool sophistication" for a certain segment of the (now approaching geriatric) Hollywood crowd. Anyone out there remember the "anorexia crisis" of a few years back? It was all over the news. Teen girls-- some said as many as 3%, think about that, three out of every 100, 30 in every high school-- were starving themselves TO DEATH. Hmmm... maybe those girls were just doing exactly what teens have always done. And, maybe they stopped, just because being anorexic is no longer "the thing to do." Maybe, the school shootings fad will pass. (Haven't heard much about "going postal" lately.) Maybe, we should just sigh, and wait it out. I really have no solution. I just worry that the hysteria in the news coverage will drive a few more borderline teens over the edge. See also: becoming transgendered, males being "emo", cyber-bullying, the opioid "crisis", et al. *sigh* There is nothing in your post that I can disagree with, as usual. However, let me bring up another possible, not cause exactly, but contributing factor. Since at lest the 90's, the establishment has made every attempt to turn boys into something androgyne. When I was in school, all those millenia ago, bullies and their victims would settle things themselves, usually after school. More often than not, after a tussle, or even a fist fight, the two would 'make up', and often would become friends. The establishment as decided that they, and only they, can "solve" bullying, and even defending ones self from assault results in expulsion, possibly even arrest and prosecution. Boys acting like boys is an anathema to the establishment, and "counseling", public humiliation, even drugs are used to make sure that all fall into line with whatever fad is currently being foisted on their captive population. All of this leads to a build up of aggression, with no real, allowable outlet. Throw in being bullied, both by student bullies and establishment bullies, and for some, suicide becomes the only option, for others, shooting up the school. Human beings have dealt with bullying since time immemorial. It's only been since the advent of "anti bullying" forces, and the suppression of natural masculine activities that school shootings have become "popular". |
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Post by redleg on May 19, 2018 21:45:48 GMT -5
The fact remains that we've seen 22 school shootings so far this year. This year. The incident gets national press coverage. The President makes a statement about how reform is needed . . . and then does nothing. The regressives in Congress, bought and paid for by the NRA, refuse to do anything, refuse to consider even common sense ideas that could lessen the shootings -- that could reduce the violence. People cry, children are buried, and politicians do nothing. Anybody want to guess when the next school shooting or mass shooting will occur? No, we haven't. Just more propaganda from the fake news. They got that number by including gang shootings on school grounds after hours, suicides on school grounds, rounds hitting schools with no injuries, even negligent discharges. The genocidal maniacs in the Party of the KKK love these shootings. They groom the shooters, making sure that they aren't arrested for crimes committed before the shootings, making sure that law enforcement does nothing about them so they can purchase firearms legally, and making sure that there is no one in the school that can stop them when they do start shooting. They want as big a body count as possible, because it helps them further their, and your, Communist agenda. The pols do nothing because nothing they can possibly do will stop the next shooting. There are no laws they can pass, no hysteria they can display, no group of citizens that they can attack that will save the life of a single student, or stop as single shooter. The only thing they can do, which the Party of the KKK absolutely refuses to do, is arm teachers, put more armed security officers in schools, and harden them as targets. They won't, because they don't want to stop them, they want as many as they can get, because it is a campaign issue for them. They want to eviscerate the Constitution, and since they can't get the great unwashed to allow them to do so, they will try to do it through mob action, and back door legislation. |
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Post by redleg on May 19, 2018 21:47:51 GMT -5
If you really wanted to cause massive casualties, a shotgun makes far more sense than a rifle of any description. A shotgun is quite possibly the most lethal close combat weapon ever devised. How long before the idiots, liars, and Communist agents start calling shotguns "weapons of war, that no civilian has any business owning"? |
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Post by redleg on May 19, 2018 21:52:58 GMT -5
Palealeman... as you know, the NRA is a very powerful lobbying group... many voters vote based on recommendations and endorsements of and by the NRA... politicians know this and bow down to them to get those votes and those campaign donations... I think there should be some limitations on such lobbying and campaign contributions by such groups... but, instead... the door for even more lobbying was opened even further just a few years ago... Why? Why not also Planned Parenthood, who has killed millions more than the NRA, including all of it's members? How about the AFL CIO, who want all the money in the country used to pay their pensions? How about Russia, who financed a large portion of The Felon's campaign? Or at least, used social media for her benefit? Shouldn't we limit donations by the DNC, since they intend to destroy everything in the country that has made us great, and enslave everyone that isn't a member of their inside circle? |
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Post by Ranger John on May 20, 2018 11:23:11 GMT -5
If you really wanted to cause massive casualties, a shotgun makes far more sense than a rifle of any description. A shotgun is quite possibly the most lethal close combat weapon ever devised. How long before the idiots, liars, and Communist agents start calling shotguns "weapons of war, that no civilian has any business owning"? It'll be sometime after the media flushes Biden's "all you need is a shotgun" comment down their collective memory hole. Not that it matters, they're starting to openly run on repealing the Second Amendment now. Which means they're running out of time as a viable political party. |
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Post by kemmer on May 20, 2018 23:07:39 GMT -5
I agree, Kemmer... in fact, all the school shootings this year are isolated instances compared to all the schools we have in the USA... we just hear about them more these days because of the 24-hour news cycle and the internet... (and the news loves these kind of things... not the deaths, mind you... but the event)... we know about these things "almost as they happen"... and there's nothing we could, or are going to, do to stop them from happening... problem is, the innocent loss of life... it's just horrendous that so many innocent lives can be snuffed out in such a short period of time when someone who has lost all respect themselves and human life goes berserk... Ah, yes, I agree. Tee-vee news is all about ratings, and FEAR SELLS! Consider the general audience for news. Viewing the ads, one concludes it's aging people worried about various health problems, combined with folks sufficiently affluent to buy new cars. Stories about gang violence in big cities (Chicago, anyone?) incite a frisson of horror, but aren't personally threatening to viewers. Violence in a nice, suburban school... "OMIGOD, that could have been OUR OWN grand-children!" They watch. They tune in during times they'd otherwise be doing something productive. They watch the ads that come every five minutes. Thus, gang violence takes more lives, but gets far less attention. This is, also, why people fear flying, but not driving, even though flying is statistically safer. WOW! Imagine if every time a child drowned in a swimming pool, it made national headlines, including "breaking news!" stories? Swimming pools kill and cripple far more children than guns every year, but nobody's afraid of them. (Maybe we should be?) |
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Post by aboutwell on May 20, 2018 23:23:22 GMT -5
If you really wanted to cause massive casualties, a shotgun makes far more sense than a rifle of any description. A shotgun is quite possibly the most lethal close combat weapon ever devised. How long before the idiots, liars, and Communist agents start calling shotguns "weapons of war, that no civilian has any business owning"? Will be interesting to see just how many deaths were caused by the shotgun vs the handgun... I haven't heard... anybody?... |
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Post by kemmer on May 20, 2018 23:38:22 GMT -5
Interesting essay. I'm not sure "riot" is quite an apt analogy, though. Rioting is a matter of "heat of the moment", when the rational part of the brain ceases to function. Nobody (except those out-of-town agitators, of course) sets out intending to break windows or set cars on fire. (Often, they only mean to party in celebration of the hometown team winning the game.) These school shooters are intensely "rational", in that they plan for weeks. They take time to acquire weapons. As French points out, since Columbine they write and post their intentions. I call it a fad, because it looks like copy-catting. Teens copy-cat all the time... clothing styles, slang, favorite bands. (Adults do this, too, of course, but not so religiously.) Consider that news outlets all agree not to cover suicide jumpers on bridges, even though the footage would be riveting. They do this because they know reportage will lead to others climbing onto that bridge to jump, too. Oh, and teen suicides come in well-documented clusters. These tend to be localized because, well, the national news coverage always remains mum. (And we should be grateful for that!) |
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Post by redleg on May 21, 2018 9:20:21 GMT -5
If you really wanted to cause massive casualties, a shotgun makes far more sense than a rifle of any description. A shotgun is quite possibly the most lethal close combat weapon ever devised. How long before the idiots, liars, and Communist agents start calling shotguns "weapons of war, that no civilian has any business owning"? Will be interesting to see just how many deaths were caused by the shotgun vs the handgun... I haven't heard... anybody?... Handguns are used many, many times as often as all long guns combined. Hands, feet, knives, clubs, all are used more often than long guns. Handguns are much easier to transport, conceal, and dispose of after the crime. |
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Post by redleg on May 21, 2018 9:23:28 GMT -5
If you really wanted to cause massive casualties, a shotgun makes far more sense than a rifle of any description. A shotgun is quite possibly the most lethal close combat weapon ever devised. How long before the idiots, liars, and Communist agents start calling shotguns "weapons of war, that no civilian has any business owning"? Will be interesting to see just how many deaths were caused by the shotgun vs the handgun... I haven't heard... anybody?... This is from 1993, but that's the latest I've found so far. www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF |
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Post by aboutwell on May 21, 2018 11:18:55 GMT -5
I was referring to the school shooting in Texas last week, Redleg... most school shootings seem to be done with long guns of some type... usually an AK-type... I haven't heard how many were killed with the shotgun and how many were killed with the handgun in Texas last week yet... you?...
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Post by redleg on May 21, 2018 22:58:37 GMT -5
I was referring to the school shooting in Texas last week, Redleg... most school shootings seem to be done with long guns of some type... usually an AK-type... I haven't heard how many were killed with the shotgun and how many were killed with the handgun in Texas last week yet... you?... No, just the most recent ones. Columbine, VT, and several others were done with handguns. No, I haven't heard it broken down like that, and we probably won't for a long time. |
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Post by aboutwell on May 22, 2018 21:58:54 GMT -5
I was referring to the school shooting in Texas last week, Redleg... most school shootings seem to be done with long guns of some type... usually an AK-type... I haven't heard how many were killed with the shotgun and how many were killed with the handgun in Texas last week yet... you?... No, just the most recent ones. Columbine, VT, and several others were done with handguns. No, I haven't heard it broken down like that, and we probably won't for a long time. There is some talk... but not likely... that some of the deaths or injuries could have been because they were caught in the crossfire between the two officers and the perp... |
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Post by redleg on May 22, 2018 22:27:56 GMT -5
No, just the most recent ones. Columbine, VT, and several others were done with handguns. No, I haven't heard it broken down like that, and we probably won't for a long time. There is some talk... but not likely... that some of the deaths or injuries could have been because they were caught in the crossfire between the two officers and the perp... It's entirely possible. If the police were armed with 9mm, since it has a propensity for over penetration, especially if they were using ball ammo. Which would be stupid, and whomever wrote the requirements for ammos should be held responsible. IF they used ball. In addition, there aren't many police officers that are really good shots. Most do just enough practice to pass their quals. Add in the adrenaline of an actual firefight, and it would be very supprising if there weren't "friendly fire" incidents. |
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