|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 12, 2014 13:05:41 GMT -5
Basically, the season, if it holds up. This is the result of his appeal, which reduced his suspension by exactly the amount of games he'd have been suspended at the tail end of last year. He has vowed a court appeal and is presently seeking an injuction against MLB to prevent his suspension while the courts examine the merits of his lawsuit against baseball. An ESPN analyst says he has little chance of prevailing. Others have suggested that the arbitrator was biased by the fact that the owners can terminate him if they don't like his ruling, this is a point of contention between pundits. Personally? I hope he sits. There's no way in the world I want him to challenge Hank Aaron's home run record, which I regard as the only legitimate record. (I believe the policy on records should be: pee hot one time and fail any appeal, and you can never, ever be entered into the record book. I'd also like the HoF to create a rule forbidding such men entry regardless of what sportswriters think.) ARod's case is mildly interesting because he never tested positive, but did admit he was a user, and this has been confirmed by others. But his objections amount to a guy being found not guilty after confessing to a bank robbery because the police didn't actually see the crime with their own eyes. The Yankees do not have to pay him; per the agreement, his non-salary does not count against them for purposes of calculating the luxury tax. |
|
|
|
Post by douger on Jan 12, 2014 13:44:33 GMT -5
If the arbiter's decision holds up is the key. Will the courts consider "irreparable harm" and expedite his case on their dockets? In most cases such as this, I wouldn't expect a resolution before spring training starts in February. Appeals could drag on until June or July.
Quite frankly, if a Pete Rose can be banned from the game for life because gambling on the game is detrimental to the game's integrity, so should the players that juiced up be banned for life. The difficulty with such a stance lies in proof. The Sosas and McGuires never tested positive yet that they juiced seems as obvious as the nose on one's face.
If I were Selig and the legal climate different, A-Rod would be saying goodbye to baseball. I don't like liars or thieves, and people that used PEDs did both as cheaters.
|
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 12, 2014 22:06:21 GMT -5
This guy thinks ARod has little chance of being granted an injunction. Essentially, courts dislike revisiting arbitration decisions because they seek to encourage it as a problem solving tool, since it unloads the docket considerably. In addition, some allegation of fraud has been the principal litmus test used to decide whether to grant an injunction in such a case, and no one has alleged that. ARod has said that Braun is not credible, but MLB apparently has evidence he tried to buy evidence from Braun to keep it out of their investigators' hands. His actions, therefore, contradict his assertions. He contends that his selfless actions are an attempt to help players; that this is baseball ownership's first shot in a war about guaranteed contracts, which they'd like to negotatiate away in 2016. Like that's going to happen without some major concession. He also says he's trying to protect players from being banned for a single positive test. That won't happen, either. His sole defense might be that he never tested positive. But an outright admission of guilt, which he made in 2009, trumps that in my view. Then again, I'm perfectly okay with guys being kept out of Cooperstown if voters even suspect they juiced, and a lot of folks aren't, so it's reasonable to say I'm biased against even the appearance of wrongdoing in this matter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2014 22:13:34 GMT -5
This guy thinks ARod has little chance of being granted an injunction. Essentially, courts dislike revisiting arbitration decisions because they seek to encourage it as a problem solving tool, since it unloads the docket considerably. In addition, some allegation of fraud has been the principal litmus test used to decide whether to grant an injunction in such a case, and no one has alleged that. ARod has said that Braun is not credible, but MLB apparently has evidence he tried to buy evidence from Braun to keep it out of their investigators' hands. His actions, therefore, contradict his assertions. He contends that his selfless actions are an attempt to help players; that this is baseball ownership's first shot in a war about guaranteed contracts, which they'd like to negotatiate away in 2016. Like that's going to happen without some major concession. He also says he's trying to protect players from being banned for a single positive test. That won't happen, either. His sole defense might be that he never tested positive. But an outright admission of guilt, which he made in 2009, trumps that in my view. Then again, I'm perfectly okay with guys being kept out of Cooperstown if voters even suspect they juiced, and a lot of folks aren't, so it's reasonable to say I'm biased against even the appearance of wrongdoing in this matter. I agree. Courts are typically loathe to overturn arbitrators decisions. |
|
|
|
Post by douger on Jan 12, 2014 22:18:11 GMT -5
This guy thinks ARod has little chance of being granted an injunction. Essentially, courts dislike revisiting arbitration decisions because they seek to encourage it as a problem solving tool, since it unloads the docket considerably. In addition, some allegation of fraud has been the principal litmus test used to decide whether to grant an injunction in such a case, and no one has alleged that. ARod has said that Braun is not credible, but MLB apparently has evidence he tried to buy evidence from Braun to keep it out of their investigators' hands. His actions, therefore, contradict his assertions. He contends that his selfless actions are an attempt to help players; that this is baseball ownership's first shot in a war about guaranteed contracts, which they'd like to negotatiate away in 2016. Like that's going to happen without some major concession. He also says he's trying to protect players from being banned for a single positive test. That won't happen, either. His sole defense might be that he never tested positive. But an outright admission of guilt, which he made in 2009, trumps that in my view. Then again, I'm perfectly okay with guys being kept out of Cooperstown if voters even suspect they juiced, and a lot of folks aren't, so it's reasonable to say I'm biased against even the appearance of wrongdoing in this matter. Selfless my ass. A-Rod is out $25 million for this year. His skills have diminished to the point that I really don't see him returning to baseball when his vacation is over. There's no altruism in what he's doing. Ditching the guaranteed contract may be a good thing for baseball as a whole, but the players union will fight for it with their last breath. |
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 12, 2014 22:55:05 GMT -5
The Yankees will have to pay him through 2017 unless they figure out how to negotiate that away. I assume if he retires he would forfeit that money, but not otherwise. I know if they cut him they're still on the hook. So he'll at least try to return.
I agree that the guaranteed contract is bad for any sport, but, the MLBPA has been trained to regard the owners as a deadly enemy - by the owners. They will not assume any request from the owners is "in the best interest of baseball" and will assume it is "in the best interest of ownership". Hence their intransigence on drug testing until recently.
And in the case of guaranteed contracts, they'll be right. The players really have no reason at all to concede that unless granted some concession they regard as at least that valuable. What that might be is anyone's guess. But the owners likely won't save money, and if they don't save money they won't be as interested.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 0:54:42 GMT -5
This guy thinks ARod has little chance of being granted an injunction. Essentially, courts dislike revisiting arbitration decisions because they seek to encourage it as a problem solving tool, since it unloads the docket considerably. In addition, some allegation of fraud has been the principal litmus test used to decide whether to grant an injunction in such a case, and no one has alleged that. ARod has said that Braun is not credible, but MLB apparently has evidence he tried to buy evidence from Braun to keep it out of their investigators' hands. His actions, therefore, contradict his assertions. He contends that his selfless actions are an attempt to help players; that this is baseball ownership's first shot in a war about guaranteed contracts, which they'd like to negotatiate away in 2016. Like that's going to happen without some major concession. He also says he's trying to protect players from being banned for a single positive test. That won't happen, either. His sole defense might be that he never tested positive. But an outright admission of guilt, which he made in 2009, trumps that in my view. Then again, I'm perfectly okay with guys being kept out of Cooperstown if voters even suspect they juiced, and a lot of folks aren't, so it's reasonable to say I'm biased against even the appearance of wrongdoing in this matter. Selfless my ass. A-Rod is out $25 million for this year. His skills have diminished to the point that I really don't see him returning to baseball when his vacation is over. There's no altruism in what he's doing. Ditching the guaranteed contract may be a good thing for baseball as a whole, but the players union will fight for it with their last breath. I don't think there's anything in the Basic Agreement per se that mandates a guaranteed contract. The so-called "guarantee language" is singularly negotiated into each player's contract. The MLBPA takes great pains, however, to scrutinize the wording of each player's contract to ensure that the club doesn't attempt to afford itself undue latitude to prematurely get out from under its financial obligations to the player. (Contracts can be voided under certain conditions.) They'd never sign off on such a deal, and would insist that the player agent renegotiate the guarantee terms.
I agree that it would practically take an act of God for the MLBPA to agree to anything but an ironclad contract. They consider such deals sacrosanct, and an NFL-type contract would be unthinkable. The only way the clubs could begin to get out from under guaranteed terms would be if they individually adopted a no guaranteed contracts policy; if attempted collectively, it would be in violation of the "acting in concert" (collusion) clause of the collective bargaining agreement.
|
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jan 17, 2014 13:52:55 GMT -5
Quite the mess......
You know I really feel bad for these guys. They really worked hard but got sidetracked in a bad way by desires to do better. I really feel bad for Rafael Palmiero.
It's just all a sad mess. These guys probably totally regret doing what they did.
|
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 17, 2014 17:36:37 GMT -5
I don't feel bad for them. They made a decision to cheat. It was their decision to make - freedom includes the freedom to make poor choices - and now they must reap the consequences of it. If that means no Hall of Fame induction for some of them, that's a small price to pay for dishonoring the game and their fellow competitors.
|
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jan 17, 2014 20:23:31 GMT -5
I don't feel bad for them. They made a decision to cheat. It was their decision to make - freedom includes the freedom to make poor choices - and now they must reap the consequences of it. If that means no Hall of Fame induction for some of them, that's a small price to pay for dishonoring the game and their fellow competitors. I'm sure they have many regrets. That's why I feel bad for them. Yeah you're right about everything but it doesn't stop me from having a little bit of sympathy for their ruined careers. Again they probably put a lot of work into playing baseball and being good. |
|
|
|
Post by douger on Jan 17, 2014 21:09:06 GMT -5
I don't feel bad for them. They made a decision to cheat. It was their decision to make - freedom includes the freedom to make poor choices - and now they must reap the consequences of it. If that means no Hall of Fame induction for some of them, that's a small price to pay for dishonoring the game and their fellow competitors. I'm sure they have many regrets. That's why I feel bad for them. Yeah you're right about everything but it doesn't stop me from having a little bit of sympathy for their ruined careers. Again they probably put a lot of work into playing baseball and being good. While the basic talent was there, how much work was it to jam a needle into your body with a magic elixir that will add 20 or 30 feet to your fly balls? And regrets? That may come later with the damage they may have introduced their bodies to. The money they stole from the owners* and the fans who bought tickets will likely not be enough to fix it. I have no sympathy for liars and thieves which is the package a cheat is. *How stupid were owners to pay A-Rod the kind of money he made over his career is grist for another thread. |
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jan 17, 2014 22:04:18 GMT -5
I'm sure they have many regrets. That's why I feel bad for them. Yeah you're right about everything but it doesn't stop me from having a little bit of sympathy for their ruined careers. Again they probably put a lot of work into playing baseball and being good. While the basic talent was there, how much work was it to jam a needle into your body with a magic elixir that will add 20 or 30 feet to your fly balls? And regrets? That may come later with the damage they may have introduced their bodies to. The money they stole from the owners* and the fans who bought tickets will likely not be enough to fix it. I have no sympathy for liars and thieves which is the package a cheat is. *How stupid were owners to pay A-Rod the kind of money he made over his career is grist for another thread. Ok Dougar  |
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jan 17, 2014 22:04:59 GMT -5
I thought baseball was a game and stuff. Oh yeah let's have some congressional hearings on it. Some people are just way too serious.
|
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 17, 2014 22:06:44 GMT -5
I'm sure people who make dumb decisions later regret it. That's presumably part of how they learn not to make dumb decisions. It's not in me to feel sorry for them. I reserve that for those affected by their decisions, other than them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Moses on Jan 17, 2014 22:33:21 GMT -5
I'm sure people who make dumb decisions later regret it. That's presumably part of how they learn not to make dumb decisions. It's not in me to feel sorry for them. I reserve that for those affected by their decisions, other than them. Well once I'm done with my empathy I get mad at these guys too for doing such stupid stuff. I love baseball. Ive followed it since 1967. And they did kind of mess things up for a long time. So yeah there's some of that too |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 0:17:19 GMT -5
The guys who juiced knew what they were doing and they did it willingly. While I have no sympathy for players like A-Rod and Bonds, who couldn't be content with careers that would result in first-ballot Hall of Fame nomination, they're not singularly to blame.
For years baseball turned a blind eye to the problem because as homeruns left the park with increasingly regularity, profits found the owners' pockets nearly as fast. And the players' union, which for years fought bitterly against any type of rigorous drug testing, was in no hurry to risk exposing constituents whose salaries were increasing right along with the revenues. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 0:28:35 GMT -5
Too bad for him, hope it was worth it.... same thing with mike webster ETAL.  |
|
|
|
Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 18, 2014 10:34:28 GMT -5
For a while medicine believed in a link between steroid use and cancer; specifically that cancer would grow faster in high steroid biologies. Recent research has thrown this into some doubt.
|
|
