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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2014 7:27:23 GMT -5
Down this path lies only the surety of war, President Sameold. War is always a surety. To think otherwise is to ignore thousands of years of history. The question is-- is it OUR war? I think not.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 29, 2014 7:31:57 GMT -5
How long do we stand back and not take care of our buddies over there?
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Post by rentedmule on Mar 29, 2014 7:59:38 GMT -5
Down this path lies only the surety of war, President Sameold. [ War is always a surety. To think otherwise is to ignore thousands of years of history. The question is-- is it OUR war? I think not. That statement may need to explained. The surety part.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 8:03:38 GMT -5
How long do we stand back and not take care of our buddies over there? Off you go then, I'll hold your coat for you.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 29, 2014 8:16:02 GMT -5
How long do we stand back and not take care of our buddies over there? Off you go then, I'll hold your coat for you. dumb response
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 8:20:23 GMT -5
Off you go then, I'll hold your coat for you. dumb response IMO your proposal is dumber.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 29, 2014 8:28:01 GMT -5
In your opinion
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Mar 29, 2014 8:35:24 GMT -5
I just read an interesting opinion piece that basically said that Putin might just be the savior of Europe from its Muslim invaders. No one else there is standing against this invasion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 9:02:33 GMT -5
Yep, that's why I prefixed my statement with "IMO".
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Post by middleoftheroad on Mar 29, 2014 11:58:38 GMT -5
OK. Here's a wild-eyed premise; all of this is staged. Putin wants someone known to be soft on defense in the White House. The military is still more far more capable than Putin wants, but he understands that overtime, that readiness will be dissolve. He's taken the Crimea, giving him permanent control of a warm-water port. He is staging an attack on Eastern Ukraine. His forces are massed, NATO has done nothing and looks weaker than ever. Enter President Obama. A few weeks of sanctions, perhaps a meeting or series of phone calls between the two. Putin decides to withdraw his forces and Obama is seen as a brilliant diplomat and peace maker.
Obama and the Democrats get a 2014 bump, Putin gets his warm-water port, Democrats keep control of the Senate and the US continues to withdraw from the world stage. "Wins" all around, except for the Ukrainians of course, about whom no one cares anyway.
Possible? Plausible? Something to make you go "Hmmmm" on a wet Saturday afternoon?
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 29, 2014 13:14:54 GMT -5
How long do we stand back and not take care of our buddies over there? What "buddies" do you refer to? Most of Europe (possibly excepting the UK) would stab us in the back if there was a buck in it for them.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Mar 29, 2014 16:41:36 GMT -5
How long do we stand back and not take care of our buddies over there? What "buddies" do you refer to? Most of Europe (possibly excepting the UK) would stab us in the back if there was a buck in it for them. France yes, the rest I doubt
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 17:41:23 GMT -5
War is always a surety. To think otherwise is to ignore thousands of years of history. The question is-- is it OUR war? I think not. That statement may need to explained. The surety part. There will always be war unless humanity changes dramatically - probably on a genetic level. There are multiple wars going on right now across the globe - Africa, conflicts in Asia, Middle East. War will always exist- the question for us is which ones do we involve ourselves in , and why ?
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Post by rentedmule on Mar 29, 2014 18:21:00 GMT -5
That statement may need to explained. The surety part. There will always be war unless humanity changes dramatically - probably on a genetic level. There are multiple wars going on right now across the globe - Africa, conflicts in Asia, Middle East. War will always exist- the question for us is which ones do we involve ourselves in , and why ? Sorry, Im still not understanding how war is a surety. Not to be contrary, but warfare is Not genetic. What IS genetic is cooperation and the need to live in groups. Warfare is a luxury engaged in by societies that are prosperous enough in treasure and population to employ the exhibition of such wealth. As are exhibitions such as the practise of slavery and employment of vast bureaucracies. Societies do indeed "show off" when they can afford to do so.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 21:06:53 GMT -5
There will always be war unless humanity changes dramatically - probably on a genetic level. There are multiple wars going on right now across the globe - Africa, conflicts in Asia, Middle East. War will always exist- the question for us is which ones do we involve ourselves in , and why ? Sorry, Im still not understanding how war is a surety. Not to be contrary, but warfare is Not genetic. What IS genetic is cooperation and the need to live in groups. Warfare is a luxury engaged in by societies that are prosperous enough in treasure and population to employ the exhibition of such wealth. As are exhibitions such as the practise of slavery and employment of vast bureaucracies. Societies do indeed "show off" when they can afford to do so. Competition between groups has always occurred, too. I say probably genetic-- I agree that cooperation is probably genetic, too- I'm not a genetic scientist, so I'm going by history-- and you would be correct on that basis, too. But cooperation within group, competition outside the group-- both are likely genetic. Small tribe Native Americans raided each other for fun and profit all the time, took slaves, killed warriors etc. Eskimos tribes would attack each other over resources if needed. War and competition are just as much a given as cooperation and living in groups.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 21:08:37 GMT -5
Simply put-- humans love killing and stealing as much as much as they love building things and working together for better goals. History has shown this over and over again.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Mar 29, 2014 21:34:23 GMT -5
There will always be war unless humanity changes dramatically - probably on a genetic level. There are multiple wars going on right now across the globe - Africa, conflicts in Asia, Middle East. War will always exist- the question for us is which ones do we involve ourselves in , and why ? Sorry, Im still not understanding how war is a surety. Not to be contrary, but warfare is Not genetic. What IS genetic is cooperation and the need to live in groups. Warfare is a luxury engaged in by societies that are prosperous enough in treasure and population to employ the exhibition of such wealth. As are exhibitions such as the practise of slavery and employment of vast bureaucracies. Societies do indeed "show off" when they can afford to do so. Nice theory, sorry that it doesn't seem to pan out in practice. Can you tell us the longest period of time that humans on this planet have managed to not have a war of some kind going on?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 19:17:57 GMT -5
Sorry, Im still not understanding how war is a surety. Not to be contrary, but warfare is Not genetic. What IS genetic is cooperation and the need to live in groups. Warfare is a luxury engaged in by societies that are prosperous enough in treasure and population to employ the exhibition of such wealth. As are exhibitions such as the practise of slavery and employment of vast bureaucracies. Societies do indeed "show off" when they can afford to do so. Nice theory, sorry that it doesn't seem to pan out in practice. Can you tell us the longest period of time that humans on this planet have managed to not have a war of some kind going on? Exactly! And I say-- why should we get involved? If we having something real to gain- well, OK, war for resources and wealth is a time-honored tradition-- lets get wealthy. If not, and we're not threatened--- seems like a waste of lives and money.
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Post by rentedmule on Apr 3, 2014 6:57:58 GMT -5
Nice theory, sorry that it doesn't seem to pan out in practice. Can you tell us the longest period of time that humans on this planet have managed to not have a war of some kind going on? Exactly! And I say-- why should we get involved? If we having something real to gain- well, OK, war for resources and wealth is a time-honored tradition-- lets get wealthy. If not, and we're not threatened--- seems like a waste of lives and money. Warfare for fun and profit? OK, thats honest. Not a surety but honest.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 7:24:01 GMT -5
Exactly! And I say-- why should we get involved? If we having something real to gain- well, OK, war for resources and wealth is a time-honored tradition-- lets get wealthy. If not, and we're not threatened--- seems like a waste of lives and money. Warfare for fun and profit? OK, thats honest. Not a surety but honest. What's really sure -- people have ALWAYS loved fun, and profit. Hence war has been a constant.
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Post by rentedmule on Apr 3, 2014 8:43:16 GMT -5
Warfare for fun and profit? OK, thats honest. Not a surety but honest. What's really sure -- people have ALWAYS loved fun, and profit. Hence war has been a constant. Except, war is NOT a constant. The desire for fun and profit leads to a learning curve, not to war which leads to bankrupcy and societal ruin. Please do not confuse violence with warfare.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 13:39:59 GMT -5
What's really sure -- people have ALWAYS loved fun, and profit. Hence war has been a constant. Except, war is NOT a constant. The desire for fun and profit leads to a learning curve, not to war which leads to bankrupcy and societal ruin. Please do not confuse violence with warfare. When has there not been war upon the Earth?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 13:47:41 GMT -5
Except, war is NOT a constant. The desire for fun and profit leads to a learning curve, not to war which leads to bankrupcy and societal ruin. Please do not confuse violence with warfare. When has there not been war upon the Earth? When did it not rain upon the Earth? When was there not a famine upon the Earth? When did a wind not blow upon the Earth? When... (You get the idea.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 15:16:17 GMT -5
When has there not been war upon the Earth? When did it not rain upon the Earth? When was there not a famine upon the Earth? When did a wind not blow upon the Earth? When... (You get the idea.) You nearly had it - but fall short.! Good try for you! Rain, wind- constants since before humankind. Famine- like war- has only been a constant since humanity evolved to experience and create it. War is a constant of the human condition.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 16:56:29 GMT -5
When did it not rain upon the Earth? When was there not a famine upon the Earth? When did a wind not blow upon the Earth? When... (You get the idea.) You nearly had it - but fall short.! Good try for you! Rain, wind- constants since before humankind. Famine- like war- has only been a constant since humanity evolved to experience and create it. War is a constant of the human condition. No dude, you are the one who hasn't got it. You make arrogant statements of 'fact' out of you own opinions. I am not the only one to have drawn your attention to this trait of yours. Unfortunately for you, you haven't got an ounce of humility in your being and will never allow yourself to be informed or corrected. Yet again, here you are arguing belligerently just for the sake of it. The failure, yet again, is yours.
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