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Post by aponderer on Jul 20, 2014 8:04:36 GMT -5
No, it actually shows how the US is isolationist. It is very easy for a government to 'educate' and cojntrol it's citizens when they are so parochial. For you to be 'right' pretty much the whole of the rest of the world has to be 'wrong'. That is one hell of a load of arrogance, that I personally do not subscribe to. So, you are a serf, who simply does and thinks what "the crowd" tells you to do or think? Such a person falls for the "appeal to popularity" fallacy...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 8:04:46 GMT -5
No, it actually shows how the US is isolationist. It is very easy for a government to 'educate' and cojntrol it's citizens when they are so parochial. For you to be 'right' pretty much the whole of the rest of the world has to be 'wrong'. That is one hell of a load of arrogance, that I personally do not subscribe to. So, you are a serf, who simply does and thinks what "the crowd" tells you to do or think? You fit your own description much better than I do.
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Post by redleg on Jul 20, 2014 8:06:25 GMT -5
A quite ridiculous question. Only when it suits them to be, they are in violation of more UN resolutions than all he rest of the member states put together. You just don't like the fact that the rest of the world sees Israel for what it truly is, probably because the rest of the world doesn't have an AIPAC running their countries and actually have freer speech (what you would call anti-Semitism) than the US has. What? A country that would live in peace if it's neighbors didn't insist on it's extermination? A country that has carved a liveable place out of desert? That's why the "Palestinians" want it, because the Israeli's have done the hard work and made it liveable. Of course, in 10, or 15 years, under "Palestinian" rule, it would be unliveable desert again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 8:07:02 GMT -5
You really should educate yourself a little better. Israel started the 6 day war with what is laughingly called a preemptive attack. It is against international law to retain land gained through conquest. Israel was carved out of Palestine, were the Palestinians active combatants in the 6 six day war?There is no Palestine. There has never been a Palestine, in your definitions. The only "Palestine" was when Rome conquered the entire area, and called it all "Palestine". And that "preemptive attack" was in response to 3 Arab nations massing their troops on Israel's border. Nothing but boilerplate claptrap. Israel started the 6 day war, historical fact, deal with it.
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Post by aponderer on Jul 20, 2014 8:07:31 GMT -5
So, you are a serf, who simply does and thinks what "the crowd" tells you to do or think? You fit your own description much better than I do. What "crowd" do you figure is telling redleg what to do or think?
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Post by redleg on Jul 20, 2014 8:09:20 GMT -5
So, you are a serf, who simply does and thinks what "the crowd" tells you to do or think? You fit your own description much better than I do. By your own statements, that would be untrue. Since "the rest of the world" is against Israel, my support of them, by definition, is not serfdom. The majority is not always right, and the minority is not always wrong.
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Post by aponderer on Jul 20, 2014 8:09:31 GMT -5
There is no Palestine. There has never been a Palestine, in your definitions. The only "Palestine" was when Rome conquered the entire area, and called it all "Palestine". And that "preemptive attack" was in response to 3 Arab nations massing their troops on Israel's border. Nothing but boilerplate claptrap. Ah, yes. Another arrogant "dismissal."
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Post by redleg on Jul 20, 2014 8:11:54 GMT -5
There is no Palestine. There has never been a Palestine, in your definitions. The only "Palestine" was when Rome conquered the entire area, and called it all "Palestine". And that "preemptive attack" was in response to 3 Arab nations massing their troops on Israel's border. Nothing but boilerplate claptrap. Israel started the 6 day war, historical fact, deal with it. Ah, yes. Having the massed armies of 3 enemy countries, who all have called repeatedly for your destruction, on your border is not a problem. It's doing something about those armies that's the problem. And there has not been a "Palestine" since Rome, and that was a description of an entire area, including present day Israel, Jordan, Syria, and part of Iraq, among other areas.
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Post by aponderer on Jul 20, 2014 8:20:36 GMT -5
Israel was carved out of Palestine, were the Palestinians active combatants in the 6 six day war? Say, didn't Great Britain have a hand in carving up "Palestine?"
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Post by middleoftheroad on Jul 20, 2014 8:44:26 GMT -5
There is no Palestine. There has never been a Palestine, in your definitions. The only "Palestine" was when Rome conquered the entire area, and called it all "Palestine". And that "preemptive attack" was in response to 3 Arab nations massing their troops on Israel's border. Nothing but boilerplate claptrap. Israel started the 6 day war, historical fact, deal with it. Your last statement is anything but fact. Having said that, do you reject out of hand the concept of preemptive defense, or are there conditions in this particular incident with which you disagree?
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 20, 2014 12:05:55 GMT -5
We must remember that to lefties talk doesn't mean anything, unless it is a rightie talking that is. So to a leftie a guy pointing a gun at you and saying he plans on killing you is just talk, the guy who is about to be killed should be prosecuted for murder if he shoots the talker first in self defense, because after all the guy hadn't actually killed him yet.
Words should have consequences, Hamas should be wiped out for their attack on Israeli citizens, and their threats to wipe out all of Israel.
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Post by vosa on Jul 20, 2014 12:09:21 GMT -5
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 20, 2014 12:15:43 GMT -5
This is probably why he cannot say anything critical of Hama's, the thought police will knock on his door.
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Post by Moses on Jul 20, 2014 12:49:27 GMT -5
We must remember that to lefties talk doesn't mean anything, unless it is a rightie talking that is. So to a leftie a guy pointing a gun at you and saying he plans on killing you is just talk, the guy who is about to be killed should be prosecuted for murder if he shoots the talker first in self defense, because after all the guy hadn't actually killed him yet. Words should have consequences, Hamas should be wiped out for their attack on Israeli citizens, and their threats to wipe out all of Israel. Good lord What a load of claptrap
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Post by stevez51 on Jul 20, 2014 13:08:35 GMT -5
We must remember that to lefties talk doesn't mean anything, unless it is a rightie talking that is. So to a leftie a guy pointing a gun at you and saying he plans on killing you is just talk, the guy who is about to be killed should be prosecuted for murder if he shoots the talker first in self defense, because after all the guy hadn't actually killed him yet. Words should have consequences, Hamas should be wiped out for their attack on Israeli citizens, and their threats to wipe out all of Israel. Good lord What a load of claptrap Guess you have no rebuttal .. ?
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 20, 2014 13:27:38 GMT -5
The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli occupied territories illegal under international law. The countries that you listed are all member states of the UN. Thusly they all regard the settlements illegal. That is not propaganda, that is a solid fact. That the US, also a member of the UN, does not actively support the UN and the rest of the world in the condemnation of Israeli land stealing and apartheid methods is a stain on the US and nothing to be proud of. When one wins a war, one usually dictates terms to the loser, and often those terms include losing territory. Do you believe that the loser in a war is entitled to the return of the land he lost? If so, what other concession should the winner get? The history of the world is littered with instances where more advanced cultures conquered less advanced cultures. And one thing Muslim culture certain isn't any longer, is advanced. Long ago, maybe. I'd have to look up when the Arabs reached their peak, and whether that was before Mohammed or not, offhand, I don't know.
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Post by stevez51 on Jul 20, 2014 14:05:53 GMT -5
The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli occupied territories illegal under international law. The countries that you listed are all member states of the UN. Thusly they all regard the settlements illegal. That is not propaganda, that is a solid fact. That the US, also a member of the UN, does not actively support the UN and the rest of the world in the condemnation of Israeli land stealing and apartheid methods is a stain on the US and nothing to be proud of. When one wins a war, one usually dictates terms to the loser, and often those terms include losing territory. Do you believe that the loser in a war is entitled to the return of the land he lost? If so, what other concession should the winner get? The history of the world is littered with instances where more advanced cultures conquered less advanced cultures. And one thing Muslim culture certain isn't any longer, is advanced. Long ago, maybe. I'd have to look up when the Arabs reached their peak, and whether that was before Mohammed or not, offhand, I don't know. When you are allowed to rebuild like Germany after WWI then you can take back the territories you lost. It doesn't look like Israel will give them that chance. Lesson learned .....
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Post by middleoftheroad on Jul 20, 2014 14:18:33 GMT -5
We must remember that to lefties talk doesn't mean anything, unless it is a rightie talking that is. So to a leftie a guy pointing a gun at you and saying he plans on killing you is just talk, the guy who is about to be killed should be prosecuted for murder if he shoots the talker first in self defense, because after all the guy hadn't actually killed him yet. Words should have consequences, Hamas should be wiped out for their attack on Israeli citizens, and their threats to wipe out all of Israel. Good lord What a load of claptrap moses, while I don't necessarily agree with HAWGTP's position, I would be interested in knowing your position on what Israel should do to defend itself from Hamas' actions?
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Post by vosa on Jul 20, 2014 14:44:57 GMT -5
When one wins a war, one usually dictates terms to the loser, and often those terms include losing territory. Do you believe that the loser in a war is entitled to the return of the land he lost? If so, what other concession should the winner get? The history of the world is littered with instances where more advanced cultures conquered less advanced cultures. And one thing Muslim culture certain isn't any longer, is advanced. Long ago, maybe. I'd have to look up when the Arabs reached their peak, and whether that was before Mohammed or not, offhand, I don't know. When you are allowed to rebuild like Germany after WWI then you can take back the territories you lost. It doesn't look like Israel will give them that chance. Lesson learned ..... I don't think it's a question of Israel giving the Palestinians the chance. After their defeat in WWII the Germans # 1 priority was re-building their country, at least it was in the FRG. Every time the Palestinians have been defeated by the Israelis their # 1 priority has been getting revenge, i.e., killing Jews. If they took half the time, money and energy they have been pouring into getting revenge and invested in improving their lot in life things would be a lot better for them and they might stop thinking about revenge. But then their one trick leaders would be out of a job. Can't have that. So the beat goes on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 17:28:34 GMT -5
When you are allowed to rebuild like Germany after WWI then you can take back the territories you lost. It doesn't look like Israel will give them that chance. Lesson learned ..... I don't think it's a question of Israel giving the Palestinians the chance. After their defeat in WWII the Germans # 1 priority was re-building their country, at least it was in the FRG. Every time the Palestinians have been defeated by the Israelis their # 1 priority has been getting revenge, i.e., killing Jews. If they took half the time, money and energy they have been pouring into getting revenge and invested in improving their lot in life things would be a lot better for them and they might stop thinking about revenge. But then their one trick leaders would be out of a job. Can't have that. So the beat goes on. If you can put your hatred to one side for 52 minutes and watch this award winning documentary, you will see that your above statement could not be more wrong. Something (however) tells me that you will not watch it and simply continue with your own hatred.
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Post by Moses on Jul 20, 2014 17:39:59 GMT -5
Good lord What a load of claptrap moses, while I don't necessarily agree with HAWGTP's position, I would be interested in knowing your position on what Israel should do to defend itself from Hamas' actions? Your question is silly because if the obvious biased phrasing you used when asking it. It's not a neutral question. Smarter and more worldly people than you have contended the Israel position is not pure either. You, thru your limited ability to see things in gray areas, contend that since I don't buy the hard line Israel position that I therefore must support the Hamas. Wrong.....
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Post by stevez51 on Jul 20, 2014 20:08:11 GMT -5
Your question is silly because if the obvious biased phrasing you used when asking it. It's not a neutral question. Smarter and more worldly people than you have contended the Israel position is not pure either. You, thru your limited ability to see things in gray areas, contend that since I don't buy the hard line Israel position that I therefore must support the Hamas. Wrong..... You sir, are a coward, unable to answer a straightforward question. That's an understatement ... can never answer a question. Just the usual snark and go on to the next theme.
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Post by Moses on Jul 20, 2014 20:29:50 GMT -5
Your question is silly because if the obvious biased phrasing you used when asking it. It's not a neutral question. Smarter and more worldly people than you have contended the Israel position is not pure either. You, thru your limited ability to see things in gray areas, contend that since I don't buy the hard line Israel position that I therefore must support the Hamas. Wrong..... You sir, are a coward, unable to answer a straightforward question. Haha this place never lets me down. I'm a coward now....
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Post by Moses on Jul 20, 2014 20:30:36 GMT -5
You sir, are a coward, unable to answer a straightforward question. That's an understatement ... can never answer a question. Just the usual snark and go on to the next theme. This seems snarky ...... You guys try way too hard....
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Post by redleg on Jul 20, 2014 22:06:07 GMT -5
I don't think it's a question of Israel giving the Palestinians the chance. After their defeat in WWII the Germans # 1 priority was re-building their country, at least it was in the FRG. Every time the Palestinians have been defeated by the Israelis their # 1 priority has been getting revenge, i.e., killing Jews. If they took half the time, money and energy they have been pouring into getting revenge and invested in improving their lot in life things would be a lot better for them and they might stop thinking about revenge. But then their one trick leaders would be out of a job. Can't have that. So the beat goes on. If you can put your hatred to one side for 52 minutes and watch this award winning documentary, you will see that your above statement could not be more wrong. Something (however) tells me that you will not watch it and simply continue with your own hatred. You mean this John Pilgar? Pilger has been a strong critic of American and British foreign policy, which he considers to be driven by an imperialist agenda.
With others,[60] Pilger supported Julian Assange, founder of Wikileaks, by pledging bail in December 2010. Pilger said at the time: "There's no doubt that he is not going to abscond".[61] Pilger featured the Wikileaks editor-in-chief in his documentary The War You Don't See (2010).[62] Pilger described the accusations against Assange in Sweden as a "political stunt"[63] consisting of "concocted charges",[64] an opinion British left-wing journalist Owen Jones has implicitly criticised.[65]
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