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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 4, 2015 8:52:21 GMT -5
People have confidence in governments, despite the fact that they are run by and often structured in the same way as corporations those people would not trust (as investments). It seems like Singer might be conducting an experiment: to see if a private individual can topple a small government.
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Post by rentedmule on Mar 4, 2015 11:46:04 GMT -5
People have confidence in governments, despite the fact that they are run by and often structured in the same way as corporations those people would not trust (as investments). It seems like Singer might be conducting an experiment: to see if a private individual can topple a small government. Corporations are structured according to the laws of those who govern. Nation states vary as to their approach to debt. The days of financial seriousness are long over, since the development of central banking. Japan is approaching 300% debt to GDP, yet their citizens don't seem to care! Singer is probably a garden variety speculator. Who represents a group of investors. Speculators serve a useful function in this world since they provide liquidity to a market, that would otherwise NOT exist absent the speculators willingness to take on the risk and adventure. The speculator allows more prudent investors to escape very bad deals in government debt and move on with their life rather than being totally ruined. For a fairly close example of vulture government raping and looting, ask those folk who held GM bonds! Many pension funds could have used a vulture capitalist to save them from such a large loss.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 4, 2015 13:06:26 GMT -5
Oh, I agree that vultures have their place, just as they do in nature. I merely wondered if he is trying to see how far he can go before our government makes him stop.
A classic example of how vultures kill the weak is Hostess. But their actions made a lot of people unhappy, despite the fact that Hostess was before their arrive essentially dead.
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 9, 2015 19:47:34 GMT -5
Greece calls on EU/IMF lenders to show political will for deal.Greece is amazing. They get into serious fiscal trouble due to corruption and an inability to restrain their spending. The rest of Europe and the IMF kindly bail them out, and instead of approaching those folks with the proper contrition and the cash to repay their bills, they come with an attitude. They elected a man who basically lied to them, essentially saying they did not have to repay creditors but failing to educate them as to the consequences of default. Now that those consequences are at hand they are angry and trying to make this the other guy's fault.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jun 28, 2015 16:08:03 GMT -5
Capital controls and a bank holidayGreece is instructive as to the future of any country, such as the United States, which formulates and implements fiscally unsound policy. The fact that the house of cards has not yet collapsed has more to do with size than anything - but the politicians keep adding cards.
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Post by redleg on Jun 29, 2015 8:46:40 GMT -5
This current interest in Greece is only another interesting illustration of sovereigns promoting the meaningless of debt, the value of wealth transfers and the inevitable acceptance by individuals of the creed: "To each according to need, from each according to ability" with the sovereign of course deciding who "needs" and who has "ability". History is full of examples of this. Leaders decide they are best suited to make all the decisions. Sometimes people even buy into that. Then the leaders start believing their own press, that they're infallible and can do whatever they like. And that those who disagree are "insurgents" or some such thing. Soon it becomes painfully apparent even to the dullest that they are being exploited. Then a cult of personality forms around someone (whose real goal is usually not to change the system, just the people at the top), there is bloodshed, and the cycle begins again. The United States was an excellent experiment in giving people some control over their destiny. Unfortunately, what it has recently proved is that not everyone is smart enough or well-educated enough to be granted that power.By design. Only the ignorant, or stupid, or mentally deficient would ever vote Democrat, so they are busy making sure that there are only the ignorant, stupid and mentally deficient available. That's what welfare, food stamps, and government control of "education" is all about. Dumbing down the entire populace so that there are always enough to vote in Democrat candidates. Since that plan isn't working well enough, they are now bringing in illegals to do the voting that Americans won't do any more.
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Post by rentedmule on Jun 29, 2015 12:37:22 GMT -5
Greece calls on EU/IMF lenders to show political will for deal.Greece is amazing. They get into serious fiscal trouble due to corruption and an inability to restrain their spending. The rest of Europe and the IMF kindly bail them out, and instead of approaching those folks with the proper contrition and the cash to repay their bills, they come with an attitude. They elected a man who basically lied to them, essentially saying they did not have to repay creditors but failing to educate them as to the consequences of default. Now that those consequences are at hand they are angry and trying to make this the other guy's fault. Whose fault here EY? The Greeks or the EU and the US? Those who enable destructive behavior are generally seen to be partners in the crime (moral hazard). $40B of the debt there is private investments.
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Post by Ranger John on Jun 29, 2015 21:00:33 GMT -5
Greece calls on EU/IMF lenders to show political will for deal.Greece is amazing. They get into serious fiscal trouble due to corruption and an inability to restrain their spending. The rest of Europe and the IMF kindly bail them out, and instead of approaching those folks with the proper contrition and the cash to repay their bills, they come with an attitude. They elected a man who basically lied to them, essentially saying they did not have to repay creditors but failing to educate them as to the consequences of default. Now that those consequences are at hand they are angry and trying to make this the other guy's fault. Whose fault here EY? The Greeks or the EU and the US? Those who enable destructive behavior are generally seen to be partners in the crime (moral hazard). $40B of the debt there is private investments. I wouldn't say the EU and US enabled destructive behavior - we extended the Greeks a kindness to help them through some tough times. However, we're now in the 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me' zone. Any additional help to the Greeks would be foolish - and we'd be enabling the destructive behavior. Boot the Greeks out of the EU and let them turn themselves into Zimbabwe.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jun 29, 2015 21:16:01 GMT -5
Greece should be allowed (even forced) to go broke as an object lesson to those parasites
that wish to live off (steal) other peoples money while doing little or nothing for themselves.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jun 29, 2015 21:45:50 GMT -5
Another one close to biting the dust?
or How to go bankrupt by continuing to spend money when times get tight.
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Post by rentedmule on Jun 30, 2015 5:21:19 GMT -5
Whose fault here EY? The Greeks or the EU and the US? Those who enable destructive behavior are generally seen to be partners in the crime (moral hazard). $40B of the debt there is private investments. I wouldn't say the EU and US enabled destructive behavior - we extended the Greeks a kindness to help them through some tough times. However, we're now in the 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me' zone. Any additional help to the Greeks would be foolish - and we'd be enabling the destructive behavior. Boot the Greeks out of the EU and let them turn themselves into Zimbabwe. "kindness"? Enabling destructive behavior is not kind! There is an old expression in economics - "ALL debts Will be paid". Debt extended for consumption is not debt at all but a "gift". The giver enjoyed his moment of acclaim for the kindness extended, the receiver enjoyed his consumption. Now..... the receiver is angry and unhappy, and the giver must eat the debt and explain to those who contributed that capital that it is GONE. The receivers can at least relish their righteousness while the givers must tell citizens and pensioners and progeny that the husbandry of their capital was ill spent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 6:07:19 GMT -5
Greece calls on EU/IMF lenders to show political will for deal.Greece is amazing. They get into serious fiscal trouble due to corruption and an inability to restrain their spending. The rest of Europe and the IMF kindly bail them out, and instead of approaching those folks with the proper contrition and the cash to repay their bills, they come with an attitude. They elected a man who basically lied to them, essentially saying they did not have to repay creditors but failing to educate them as to the consequences of default. Now that those consequences are at hand they are angry and trying to make this the other guy's fault. Whose fault here EY? The Greeks or the EU and the US? Those who enable destructive behavior are generally seen to be partners in the crime (moral hazard). $40B of the debt there is private investments. I find myself in the same camp as you. The EU has been in a growth mode for the last decade or so and has accepted too many countries that should never have been in it. Greece is one of those. As a Grecophile who has spent much time there, I recall discussing with my friends their entry into the EU and the €uro, basically I was opposed. If someone as amateur as I in world finance could see the looming disaster, I would have hoped that better heads would have been able to predict this outcome. The EU has brought this upon themselves as have Greece. I am very glad that the UK resisted the call to join the €uro and will be voting to leave the EU altogether in the forthcoming referendum. The end result that I forsee is that Greece, sooner or later, will indeed leave the EU, reinstate the Drachmae, sure it will put them back a little but "Zimbabwe", whoever said that, don't be so silly. For those that sneer about using other people's money, look at your own international debts and lifestyle, God help all of us if we were to be put on the same swingeing levels of austerity as the Greeks are currently suffering.
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Post by rentedmule on Jul 1, 2015 9:53:10 GMT -5
Not sure I've ever heard of a "currency" being successful that existed outside of a sovereign nation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 12:19:18 GMT -5
Not sure I've ever heard of a "currency" being successful that existed outside of a sovereign nation. The US Dollar is well received in most countries, the British Pound also to a lesser degree. In my travels I have often been asked for tips in Sterling instead of the local currency.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 1, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
When I was in Greece 2 years ago. Every shop keeper I bought things from (4) wanted payment in dollars first, euros second and drachma dead last. So I paid in dollars and was glad to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 20:20:02 GMT -5
When I was in Greece 2 years ago. Every shop keeper I bought things from (4) wanted payment in dollars first, euros second and drachma dead last. So I paid in dollars and was glad to do it. I'm surprised that you found some shop keepers that would take drachmae, it hasn't been legal tender since 2002.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 1, 2015 22:18:21 GMT -5
When I was in Greece 2 years ago. Every shop keeper I bought things from (4) wanted payment in dollars first, euros second and drachma dead last. So I paid in dollars and was glad to do it. I'm surprised that you found some shop keepers that would take drachmae, it hasn't been legal tender since 2002. Well I'm wrong then. But they were willing to take any currency you had.
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Post by rentedmule on Jul 2, 2015 7:09:13 GMT -5
Not sure I've ever heard of a "currency" being successful that existed outside of a sovereign nation. The US Dollar is well received in most countries, the British Pound also to a lesser degree. In my travels I have often been asked for tips in Sterling instead of the local currency. It amazes me how cavalier some societies are when it comes to currency! Many governments seem to think that by fiat they can compel others to accept their notions of "money".
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Post by rentedmule on Jul 2, 2015 7:12:08 GMT -5
Rhinehart and Rogoff have stated that in the last 100 years, Greece has been in economic turmoil and crisis 90% of the time. www.theglobalist.com/the-historical-roots-of-greeces-debt-crisis/"A welfare state emerged, including an automatic, indexed salary schedule instead of annual pay increases based on market indicators (such as productivity). A worker’s base salary would be further adjusted to include subsidies and transfers of all kinds, based on factors such as marital status and number of children. This also included the infamous 13th and 14th monthly salaries.
The resulting lack of economic opportunity and real growth, however, pushed an unprecedented number of Greeks to emigrate to the United States and Australia after the World War II. With one of the highest rates of emigration in the world, remittances soon became the largest component of Greece’s GDP. Greece even established a parliamentary committee for its diaspora to better address their interests."
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Post by rentedmule on Jul 4, 2015 7:48:07 GMT -5
Whose fault here EY? The Greeks or the EU and the US? Those who enable destructive behavior are generally seen to be partners in the crime (moral hazard). $40B of the debt there is private investments. I find myself in the same camp as you. The EU has been in a growth mode for the last decade or so and has accepted too many countries that should never have been in it. Greece is one of those. As a Grecophile who has spent much time there, I recall discussing with my friends their entry into the EU and the €uro, basically I was opposed. If someone as amateur as I in world finance could see the looming disaster, I would have hoped that better heads would have been able to predict this outcome. The EU has brought this upon themselves as have Greece. I am very glad that the UK resisted the call to join the €uro and will be voting to leave the EU altogether in the forthcoming referendum. The end result that I forsee is that Greece, sooner or later, will indeed leave the EU, reinstate the Drachmae, sure it will put them back a little but "Zimbabwe", whoever said that, don't be so silly. For those that sneer about using other people's money, look at your own international debts and lifestyle, God help all of us if we were to be put on the same swingeing levels of austerity as the Greeks are currently suffering. You are not the only one! www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/europes-weapon-of-mass-destruction/2015/06/29/2791ecbc-1e9d-11e5-aeb9-a411a84c9d55_story.html"Enter the euro. Establishing a common currency was meant to facilitate the cross-border flow of goods, services, people and capital, and thus bond disparate countries through the mutual benefits of trade. But, unfortunately, such numismatic gymnastics made little sense given Europe’s fractured cultural and regulatory landscape. Milton Friedman, among other Cassandras, explained why nearly two decades ago in an essay detailing the best (the United States) and worst (Europe) conditions under which to create a currency union. In Europe, where countries are divided by language, customs, regulatory regimes and fiscal policies, a common currency would inevitably prove disastrous, he wrote. Shocks hitting one country would heave themselves across the continent if individual countries could not easily adjust prices through their exchange rates.
Rather than promoting political unity, Friedman argued, “the adoption of the Euro would have the opposite effect. It would exacerbate political tensions by converting divergent shocks that could have been readily accommodated by exchange rate changes into divisive political issues.” It's likely that these confederations and unions make it most difficult for various societies to make the required adjustments in order to function between one another. The world is still tribal, whether that notion is fashionable or not!
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 4, 2015 12:17:48 GMT -5
The world will always be tribal. That is human nature. What's amazing is the number of people who think that with an effort of sufficient will it is possible to set aside instincts inculcated by hundreds of centuries of evolution as if they did not matter. You find these folks on the left, and on the right, although their issues differ.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 5, 2015 18:25:55 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 18:38:16 GMT -5
What's with all this Zimbabwe shyte? No doubt things will get even harder for the Greek people but I'll say this, they'll handle it a lot better than Americans would. If you guys were given the same conditions, you'd have had a revolution by now.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 5, 2015 18:42:34 GMT -5
What's with all this Zimbabwe shyte? No doubt things will get even harder for the Greek people but I'll say this, they'll handle it a lot better than Americans would. If you guys were given the same conditions, you'd have had a revolution by now. Their economy's going in the sh***er, that's all that means. Be patient. We'll get there. Because of our size it will take a little longer, that's all. And, yes, there will be a lot of bloodshed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 18:59:06 GMT -5
What's with all this Zimbabwe shyte? No doubt things will get even harder for the Greek people but I'll say this, they'll handle it a lot better than Americans would. If you guys were given the same conditions, you'd have had a revolution by now. Their economy's going in the sh***er, that's all that means. Be patient. We'll get there. Because of our size it will take a little longer, that's all. And, yes, there will be a lot of bloodshed. The Greek economy has been in the sh***er for as long as I can remember. I have visited rural Greece literally dozens of times over the last 30 odd years, I've watched them grow from a very poor people, I remember when a donkey was a status symbol. Seriously, most of the older generation will remember that also, so yes, they will handle going back to that in their stride. When the world realises that the US isn't "too big to fail" and when the USD isn't the world's reserve currency, it too will have to meet its debts in similar fashion. I will take no pleasure in that either, particularly as it would have a devastating effect on most all of the western world, my own country included.
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