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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 5, 2015 19:53:20 GMT -5
Im willing to bet the Greeks will riot and want to start their own revolution OR a military Junta will take over.
Which is what will happen here or ANYWHERE Britain included
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 20:00:46 GMT -5
Im willing to bet the Greeks will riot and want to start their own revolution OR a military Junta will take over. Which is what will happen here or ANYWHERE Britain included You'll lose you money. I imagine there will be some rioting, there will not be a revolution or a military junta because the crisis isn't that deep and the Greeks have been suffering austerity now for some time. I also don't agree with "anywhere in the world" either, think that if it makes you feel better but you will be wrong
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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 5, 2015 20:03:28 GMT -5
Maybe But Ive seen here and in other countries how mad people get when the gravy train derails.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 20:15:53 GMT -5
Maybe But Ive seen here and in other countries how mad people get when the gravy train derails. Indeed. But the US has had generations now that have been riding on the gravy train of 'other peoples money' and so many don't even realise that they are on it. You guys scream "rape" if a gallon of gas goes up a few cents. If things get a bit 'iffy' you just print out some more dollars. There will be a gulf of difference between the average US citizen and the average 'other countries' citizen, when it comes down to having to give it all up, the average US citizen will have to give up much more, if only because they have more, all on OPM.
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Post by redleg on Jul 5, 2015 20:28:29 GMT -5
Their economy's going in the sh***er, that's all that means. Be patient. We'll get there. Because of our size it will take a little longer, that's all. And, yes, there will be a lot of bloodshed. The Greek economy has been in the sh***er for as long as I can remember. I have visited rural Greece literally dozens of times over the last 30 odd years, I've watched them grow from a very poor people, I remember when a donkey was a status symbol. Seriously, most of the older generation will remember that also, so yes, they will handle going back to that in their stride. When the world realises that the US isn't "too big to fail" and when the USD isn't the world's reserve currency, it too will have to meet its debts in similar fashion. I will take no pleasure in that either, particularly as it would have a devastating effect on most all of the western world, my own country included. At that point, most of the rest of the world will either be speaking Russian or Chinese, since the US is the only country capable of stopping them. For now, until the Dems finish destroying our military. Europe wil become part of the new USSR, and we won't have the capacity to stop Putin in about 2 years.
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Post by redleg on Jul 5, 2015 20:31:05 GMT -5
Maybe But Ive seen here and in other countries how mad people get when the gravy train derails. Indeed. But the US has had generations now that have been riding on the gravy train of 'other peoples money' and so many don't even realise that they are on it. You guys scream "rape" if a gallon of gas goes up a few cents. If things get a bit 'iffy' you just print out some more dollars. There will be a gulf of difference between the average US citizen and the average 'other countries' citizen, when it comes down to having to give it all up, the average US citizen will have to give up much more, if only because they have more, all on OPM. So has Europe. The US's dime, mostly. And we don't scream "rape", we scream "hang the politicians". Because every time it goes up, it's because of a political decision. Europe doesn't have the problem we do with transportation. You can drive less distance than from DC to NY, and have crossed 3 countries. In Texas, it's often an hour's drive just to the next town.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 5, 2015 22:29:06 GMT -5
Maybe But Ive seen here and in other countries how mad people get when the gravy train derails. Indeed. But the US has had generations now that have been riding on the gravy train of 'other peoples money' and so many don't even realise that they are on it. You guys scream "rape" if a gallon of gas goes up a few cents. If things get a bit 'iffy' you just print out some more dollars. There will be a gulf of difference between the average US citizen and the average 'other countries' citizen, when it comes down to having to give it all up, the average US citizen will have to give up much more, if only because they have more, all on OPM. Ho Hum SOSDD But you have a nice anti American day anyway. No one will be happy when they fall back on lifestyle, watch the Greeks and learn when they go back to a donkey as a prized possession and we will see.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 6:02:14 GMT -5
Indeed. But the US has had generations now that have been riding on the gravy train of 'other peoples money' and so many don't even realise that they are on it. You guys scream "rape" if a gallon of gas goes up a few cents. If things get a bit 'iffy' you just print out some more dollars. There will be a gulf of difference between the average US citizen and the average 'other countries' citizen, when it comes down to having to give it all up, the average US citizen will have to give up much more, if only because they have more, all on OPM. Ho Hum SOSDD But you have a nice anti American day anyway.No one will be happy when they fall back on lifestyle, watch the Greeks and learn when they go back to a donkey as a prized possession and we will see. I'm sorry to see that you view a critical assessment of your countries own debt crisis and the possible effect on its peoples in the event of actually having to meet that debt as "anti-American", I don't see your criticisms of Greece as anti-Greek. A list of countries running on other people's money. www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-government-debt-per-person-countriesPosted to show where Greece sits on the Gravy Train Express, compared to other nations, a bit of an eye opener if one cares to look.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 6, 2015 19:38:09 GMT -5
Ho Hum SOSDD But you have a nice anti American day anyway.No one will be happy when they fall back on lifestyle, watch the Greeks and learn when they go back to a donkey as a prized possession and we will see. I'm sorry to see that you view a critical assessment of your countries own debt crisis and the possible effect on its peoples in the event of actually having to meet that debt as "anti-American", I don't see your criticisms of Greece as anti-Greek. A list of countries running on other people's money. www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-government-debt-per-person-countriesPosted to show where Greece sits on the Gravy Train Express, compared to other nations, a bit of an eye opener if one cares to look. Oh I agree with your assessment, it just seems you enjoy giving it a bit too much. But go right ahead I wouldn't want you to stop, Freedom of Speech you know.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 6, 2015 19:46:37 GMT -5
An interesting list, I see that Great Britan made the "top" 10 at #9.
I have long railed against the debt that the US continues to rack up using other peoples money. But as long as the politicans know that they can get votes from the something for nothing crowd, it will never stop until we go broke. Then the manure will hit the oscillating air mover! Then the pols will move the decimal point over calming the something for nothings, but ruining the savings and investments of the middle class that did work for their money.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 20:04:52 GMT -5
An interesting list, I see that Great Britan made the "top" 10 at #9. I have long railed against the debt that the US continues to rack up using other peoples money. But as long as the politicans know that they can get votes from the something for nothing crowd, it will never stop until we go broke. Then the manure will hit the oscillating air mover! Then the pols will move the decimal point over calming the something for nothings, but ruining the savings and investments of the middle class that did work for their money. Yes the list is interesting. I posted to show that Greece has a lower debt per capita than both the US and the UK. We speak of capitalism, one particular idiot on here considers the UK to be Marxist/communist but doesn't it strike you as odd that we both live in capitalist countries and are so in debt? Capitalism on the 'never-never' (hire purchase) or OPM so to speak.
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 6, 2015 20:25:57 GMT -5
An interesting list, I see that Great Britan made the "top" 10 at #9. I have long railed against the debt that the US continues to rack up using other peoples money. But as long as the politicans know that they can get votes from the something for nothing crowd, it will never stop until we go broke. Then the manure will hit the oscillating air mover! Then the pols will move the decimal point over calming the something for nothings, but ruining the savings and investments of the middle class that did work for their money. The really freaky thing is we've been supporting other people's countries with foreign debt. Hell, we probably send development aid to China, financed, of course, with Chinese money. That's one hell of a deal for them - they get us coming and going.
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Post by rentedmule on Jul 7, 2015 5:50:49 GMT -5
An interesting list, I see that Great Britan made the "top" 10 at #9. I have long railed against the debt that the US continues to rack up using other peoples money. But as long as the politicans know that they can get votes from the something for nothing crowd, it will never stop until we go broke. Then the manure will hit the oscillating air mover! Then the pols will move the decimal point over calming the something for nothings, but ruining the savings and investments of the middle class that did work for their money. Yes the list is interesting. I posted to show that Greece has a lower debt per capita than both the US and the UK. We speak of capitalism, one particular idiot on here considers the UK to be Marxist/communist but doesn't it strike you as odd that we both live in capitalist countries and are so in debt? Capitalism on the 'never-never' (hire purchase) or OPM so to speak. Geez. The virtue of capitalism is that some folk defer consumption so that others can consume. "Debt" in and of itself does not have a value judgement! I doubt I've met anyone who hasn't borrowed money. As you say, capital can be "rented". It's such a beautiful concept, yet took many centuries to develop and be "accepted". In 1915 the US was the largest debtor nation in the world (mostly with English money!). It was not seen as a negative. The English ROI was most favorable, and the Americans were too busy building a modern economy and nation to save forever in order to increase their production and satisfy their ambitions. They "rented" European capital. Without shame. The Europeans funded the Eerie Canal, the US railroad industry, the agricultural abundance of the South and the fledgling industrial capacity of the North. In 1918 the US became the largest creditor nation in the world! Astounding stuff. As an economic dynamo the US was "required" to and needed to export capital to Europe.
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Post by rentedmule on Jul 7, 2015 16:36:35 GMT -5
Ho Hum SOSDD But you have a nice anti American day anyway.No one will be happy when they fall back on lifestyle, watch the Greeks and learn when they go back to a donkey as a prized possession and we will see. I'm sorry to see that you view a critical assessment of your countries own debt crisis and the possible effect on its peoples in the event of actually having to meet that debt as "anti-American", I don't see your criticisms of Greece as anti-Greek. A list of countries running on other people's money. www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-government-debt-per-person-countriesPosted to show where Greece sits on the Gravy Train Express, compared to other nations, a bit of an eye opener if one cares to look. Not sure how Greece relates to the others posted? Japan is a VERY productive society that just happens to be fashionably fickle over Keyensian economics. It's a quite unusual culture and unlikely to give us any info that applies to the rest of us. Plus, the Japanese debt is mostly domestic and is considered a less than normal threat, compared to those who rely on foreign debt. Ireland is indeed troubling! Norway is interesting... a socialist society that is blessed with North Sea oil. Abd those folk have no problem with $9.00 per gallon fuel! Saudi Arabia is fascinating! No debt but possibly the worst society on the list! An excellent example that oil is just as often a curse as a gift. The US is the most problematic for me! A nation stae blessed in every way yet refuses to support itself. No idea how or why this societal deformation occurred.
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Post by redleg on Jul 7, 2015 19:36:47 GMT -5
I'm sorry to see that you view a critical assessment of your countries own debt crisis and the possible effect on its peoples in the event of actually having to meet that debt as "anti-American", I don't see your criticisms of Greece as anti-Greek. A list of countries running on other people's money. www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-government-debt-per-person-countriesPosted to show where Greece sits on the Gravy Train Express, compared to other nations, a bit of an eye opener if one cares to look. Not sure how Greece relates to the others posted? Japan is a VERY productive society that just happens to be fashionably fickle over Keyensian economics. It's a quite unusual culture and unlikely to give us any info that applies to the rest of us. Plus, the Japanese debt is mostly domestic and is considered a less than normal threat, compared to those who rely on foreign debt. Ireland is indeed troubling! Norway is interesting... a socialist society that is blessed with North Sea oil. Abd those folk have no problem with $9.00 per gallon fuel! Saudi Arabia is fascinating! No debt but possibly the worst society on the list! An excellent example that oil is just as often a curse as a gift. The US is the most problematic for me! A nation stae blessed in every way yet refuses to support itself. No idea how or why this societal deformation occurred.We have allowed Democrats to gain power. The Democrat Party has "progressed" from the Party of the KKK to the Party of the Soviet Union. They demand absolute, unquestioning obedience to even the most infantile, insane policies, and have controlled "education" long enough to have created generations of mindless slaves to keep putting them in power.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 8, 2015 13:58:33 GMT -5
We have allowed Democrats to gain power. The Democrat Party has "progressed" from the Party of the KKK to the Party of the Soviet Union. They demand absolute, unquestioning obedience to even the most infantile, insane policies, and have controlled "education" long enough to have created generations of mindless slaves to keep putting them in power. Some of the biggest beneficiaries of government largess are large corporations, who enjoy everything from tax breaks to outright subsidies. And it's the Republicans who are the party of the corporation. You can't lay this solely at the feet of Democrats.
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 8, 2015 14:10:03 GMT -5
We have allowed Democrats to gain power. The Democrat Party has "progressed" from the Party of the KKK to the Party of the Soviet Union. They demand absolute, unquestioning obedience to even the most infantile, insane policies, and have controlled "education" long enough to have created generations of mindless slaves to keep putting them in power. Some of the biggest beneficiaries of government largess are large corporations, who enjoy everything from tax breaks to outright subsidies. And it's the Republicans who are the party of the corporation. You can't lay this solely at the feet of Democrats. Given the state of the tax code - where the upper income tax rates for corporations are the highest in the industrial world - the 'tax break' part of your assertion is specious. It's the only way to keep our corporations even remotely competitive with other countries - short of doing what actually needs done, which is lowering the corporate tax rates across the board and eliminating the loop holes. In many ways, the subsidies are the same story. US companies routinely find themselves in competition with state-owned companies.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 8, 2015 14:24:40 GMT -5
Given the state of the tax code - where the upper income tax rates for corporations are the highest in the industrial world - the 'tax break' part of your assertion is specious. It's the only way to keep our corporations even remotely competitive with other countries - short of doing what actually needs done, which is lowering the corporate tax rates across the board and eliminating the loop holes. In many ways, the subsidies are the same story. US companies routinely find themselves in competition with state-owned companies. There is literally no Republican behavior you won't excuse, is there?
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 8, 2015 14:31:06 GMT -5
Given the state of the tax code - where the upper income tax rates for corporations are the highest in the industrial world - the 'tax break' part of your assertion is specious. It's the only way to keep our corporations even remotely competitive with other countries - short of doing what actually needs done, which is lowering the corporate tax rates across the board and eliminating the loop holes. In many ways, the subsidies are the same story. US companies routinely find themselves in competition with state-owned companies. There is literally no Republican behavior you won't excuse, is there? On the contrary, we're in this place because we have a 35% top corporate tax rate - that's a Democrat thing, not a Republican one. It's the highest in the industrialized world. Without all those tax breaks and loop holes that bother you so much, our economy would likely look more like Cameroon and North Korea which have similar corporate rates. I'm not excusing this - these breaks are desperately needed until people like you and the Democrats wise up and realize the top rate needs to be lowered so the loopholes and breaks can end.
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Post by redleg on Jul 8, 2015 19:39:18 GMT -5
We have allowed Democrats to gain power. The Democrat Party has "progressed" from the Party of the KKK to the Party of the Soviet Union. They demand absolute, unquestioning obedience to even the most infantile, insane policies, and have controlled "education" long enough to have created generations of mindless slaves to keep putting them in power. Some of the biggest beneficiaries of government largess are large corporations, who enjoy everything from tax breaks to outright subsidies. And it's the Republicans who are the party of the corporation. You can't lay this solely at the feet of Democrats. Solely? Not at all. However, the Dems are the party, not only of the KKK, but bribery, extortion, and theft. Take the insurance companies, for instance. The only reason they "signed on" to Puppettax was because The Puppet threatened to shut them down, not only if they didn't go along, but if they talked about it at all. Look at the bailouts, who was bailed out, and who was hung out to dry. The ones that were "saved' were those that handed over enough extortion money for the Dems to give them something back. Look at the billions The Puppet has wasted on "green energy" boondoggles. Notice that nearly every one of the "green companies" that got handouts were bundlers or financiers of the Party of the KKK. No, the Dems have created very nearly all of this mess, and with their control of "education" and "entertainment", they are making sure that coming generations are too stupid to see that they are merely serfs.
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Post by redleg on Jul 8, 2015 19:41:48 GMT -5
There is literally no Republican behavior you won't excuse, is there? On the contrary, we're in this place because we have a 35% top corporate tax rate - that's a Democrat thing, not a Republican one. It's the highest in the industrialized world. Without all those tax breaks and loop holes that bother you so much, our economy would likely look more like Cameroon and North Korea which have similar corporate rates. I'm not excusing this - these breaks are desperately needed until people like you and the Democrats wise up and realize the top rate needs to be lowered so the loopholes and breaks can end. I think EY truly believes all of our consumer goods are made at night by teams of fairies, and that corporations have nothing to do with all the things he uses every day, from gasoline to socks.
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Post by Ranger John on Jul 8, 2015 20:05:10 GMT -5
On the contrary, we're in this place because we have a 35% top corporate tax rate - that's a Democrat thing, not a Republican one. It's the highest in the industrialized world. Without all those tax breaks and loop holes that bother you so much, our economy would likely look more like Cameroon and North Korea which have similar corporate rates. I'm not excusing this - these breaks are desperately needed until people like you and the Democrats wise up and realize the top rate needs to be lowered so the loopholes and breaks can end. I think EY truly believes all of our consumer goods are made at night by teams of fairies, and that corporations have nothing to do with all the things he uses every day, from gasoline to socks. Sometimes his anti-corporation schtick reminds me of Occupy Wall Street. Lots of outrage, no understanding.
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Post by rocketwolf on Jul 8, 2015 22:59:23 GMT -5
We have allowed Democrats to gain power. The Democrat Party has "progressed" from the Party of the KKK to the Party of the Soviet Union. They demand absolute, unquestioning obedience to even the most infantile, insane policies, and have controlled "education" long enough to have created generations of mindless slaves to keep putting them in power. Some of the biggest beneficiaries of government largess are large corporations, who enjoy everything from tax breaks to outright subsidies. And it's the Republicans who are the party of the corporation. You can't lay this solely at the feet of Democrats. What is interesting and perplexing is that Democrats want to suck all the money they possibly can from business, while Republicans try to counter act that by giving subsidies and tax breaks. The smart thing to to would be to lower tax rates (and end the war on business by Democrats) to sensible levels and then STOP ALL of the subsidies and giveaways by Republicans. Then make no changes for at least 16 years (4 presidential terms)
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 9, 2015 9:52:31 GMT -5
I think EY truly believes all of our consumer goods are made at night by teams of fairies, and that corporations have nothing to do with all the things he uses every day, from gasoline to socks. You'd be wrong, but that's familiar territory for you. I'd prefer to see companies sink or swim on the merits of their products, and not on whether the government, either party, favors them or not. I find the slavish devotion of you and Ranger John to the Republicans kind of odd, when they're not all that conservative any more (fiscally, anyway - they're still pretty repressed socially). They've never been strong advocates of average Americans (but if you're wealthy they're in your camp), but recently their exclusive interest is in corporations. Corporations are great wealth engines; run well, they produce greater than the sum of their parts. However, I have no wish to be governed by them, because capitalism in its purest form is merciless to people.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 9, 2015 9:54:22 GMT -5
What is interesting and perplexing is that Democrats want to suck all the money they possibly can from business, while Republicans try to counter act that by giving subsidies and tax breaks. The smart thing to to would be to lower tax rates (and end the war on business by Democrats) to sensible levels and then STOP ALL of the subsidies and giveaways by Republicans. Then make no changes for at least 16 years (4 presidential terms) I'd agree. The tax code needs to be simplified, and then it needs to be made difficult (say, 65% supermajority) to change it.
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