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Post by aboutwell on Mar 5, 2015 16:53:37 GMT -5
Let me ask the question(s) again... If they have worked here and paid taxes for the last three years... why shouldn't they be able to do it if John Doe, who has been here working and paying taxes for that same period of time, can?... after all, taxes are collected based on wages earned... right?... Your "answer" doesn't make anything "unpleasant"... they're just getting a windfall they didn't "expect"... and if the ETIC is strictly based on work done and taxes paid... is it "fair?" to allow it for one worker... but not another... And we haven't discussed whether or not these individuals had ever filed a return before... I don't see why you're asking the question again when it has already been answered. You may not have gotten an answer that agrees with your core ethic. Try the Democratic Underground. As I said... I asked the questions to get input into the discussion... have I said anywhere that I haven't gotten any answers?... I didn't think I had... although I have given my opinion on any of them getting an ETIC... You don't have a clue as to my "core ethic?"...
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 5, 2015 17:01:36 GMT -5
I'd be surprised to find that most "illegals' cross the border with appropriate documents. Don't forget, when discussing legal matters, intent is often a factor in whether or not an act or deed is illegal. I'm surprised if any at all get over the border without the proper documentation needed at the time... unless they crossed under or over a fence... or swam the Rio Grand... how long has it been since you've been to the border?... I've been there recently and based on what I saw... I think it would be hard sneak a bad attitude across... And I understand that "intent" is relevant to some crimes... some after the act is committed... and some beforeas in "conspiracy" to commit a criminal act... but crossing the border doesn't fit into either of these two categories...
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Post by aponderer on Mar 5, 2015 17:10:55 GMT -5
I'd be surprised to find that most "illegals' cross the border with appropriate documents. Don't forget, when discussing legal matters, intent is often a factor in whether or not an act or deed is illegal. I'm surprised if any at all get over the border without the proper documentation needed at the time... unless they crossed under or over a fence... or swam the Rio Grand... how long has it been since you've been to the border?... I've been there recently and based on what I saw... I think it would be hard sneak a bad attitude across... And I understand that "intent" is relevant to some crimes... some after the act is committed... and some beforeas in "conspiracy" to commit a criminal act... but crossing the border doesn't fit into either of these two categories... I've seen the border many times, but I've not seen every foot of it. And the Rio Grande in summer can be pretty shallow. I've seen people in the middle of it in water only up to their knees. Did the administration tell you there's a fence all the way from the Pacific Ocean to the Rio Grande? Surely you're not implying some ten million plus folks entering the U.S. via Mexico are entering, with appropriate documentation, through a U.S. Port of Entry?
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 5, 2015 17:25:44 GMT -5
I'm surprised if any at all get over the border without the proper documentation needed at the time... unless they crossed under or over a fence... or swam the Rio Grand... how long has it been since you've been to the border?... I've been there recently and based on what I saw... I think it would be hard sneak a bad attitude across... And I understand that "intent" is relevant to some crimes... some after the act is committed... and some beforeas in "conspiracy" to commit a criminal act... but crossing the border doesn't fit into either of these two categories... I've seen the border many times, but I've not seen every foot of it. And the Rio Grande in summer can be pretty shallow. I've seen people in the middle of it in water only up to their knees. Did the administration tell you there's a fence all the way from the Pacific Ocean to the Rio Grande? Surely you're not implying some ten million plus folks entering the U.S. via Mexico are entering, with appropriate documentation, through a U.S. Port of Entry? No, there was a plan to place a fence all the way... but the Republicans killed that plan... and I've seen places where one can walk across the Rio Grande without getting wet at all... I was just sayin'... I do believe that most immigrants entering the U.S. do cross at ports of entry...
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Post by aponderer on Mar 5, 2015 17:31:53 GMT -5
I've seen the border many times, but I've not seen every foot of it. And the Rio Grande in summer can be pretty shallow. I've seen people in the middle of it in water only up to their knees. Did the administration tell you there's a fence all the way from the Pacific Ocean to the Rio Grande? Surely you're not implying some ten million plus folks entering the U.S. via Mexico are entering, with appropriate documentation, through a U.S. Port of Entry? No, there was a plan to place a fence all the way... but the Republicans killed that plan... and I've seen places where one can walk across the Rio Grande without getting wet at all... I was just sayin'... I do believe that most immigrants entering the U.S. do cross at ports of entry... There's where we differ. I believe most immigrants entering the U.S. along the Mexican border are illegals and don't actually cross through Ports of Entry.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 5, 2015 18:38:28 GMT -5
As I said... I asked the questions to get input into the discussion... have I said anywhere that I haven't gotten any answers?... I didn't think I had... although I have given my opinion on any of them getting an ETIC... Sadly, you and baldeagle are the only liberals left on this forum. I doubt you'll get too many different answers. You don't have a clue as to my "core ethic?"... No, hence "may have gotten". On the other hand, your unwavering support for positions held by liberals and for Democrats suggests the general form of it.
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 5, 2015 18:44:16 GMT -5
No, there was a plan to place a fence all the way... but the Republicans killed that plan... and I've seen places where one can walk across the Rio Grande without getting wet at all... I was just sayin'... I do believe that most immigrants entering the U.S. do cross at ports of entry... There's where we differ. I believe most immigrants entering the U.S. along the Mexican border are illegals and don't actually cross through Ports of Entry. If that be the case... such individuals are illegals when they cross the border at an unauthorized location... period...
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 5, 2015 18:50:10 GMT -5
As I said... I asked the questions to get input into the discussion... have I said anywhere that I haven't gotten any answers?... I didn't think I had... although I have given my opinion on any of them getting an ETIC... Sadly, you and baldeagle are the only liberals left on this forum. I doubt you'll get too many different answers. You don't have a clue as to my "core ethic?"... No, hence "may have gotten". On the other hand, your unwavering support for positions held by liberals and for Democrats suggests the general form of it. I'm used to those odds... and enjoy it... And while I do hold some "liberal" views... of which I am proud... I also support many, possibly even more, conservative views... and I'm proud of those as well... generally, I support both...
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Post by aponderer on Mar 5, 2015 19:35:42 GMT -5
There's where we differ. I believe most immigrants entering the U.S. along the Mexican border are illegals and don't actually cross through Ports of Entry. If that be the case... such individuals are illegals when they cross the border at an unauthorized location... period... Damn, now we're going to get ANOTHER foot of snow...
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Post by aponderer on Mar 5, 2015 19:41:55 GMT -5
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 5, 2015 23:05:15 GMT -5
I believe that's what I said: Most don't "cross" the border illegally... one can simply walk across the border legally... staying is what makes them here illegally...
Crossing the border with the proper documents doesn't make anyone an illegal... staying here beyond the time you are allowed to stay without returning does...
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Post by rentedmule on Mar 6, 2015 8:58:18 GMT -5
I think we all know what "illegal" means. You and the administration can parse on if you choose. We are not talking about a weekend at Disneyland here. Ask Casa de Maryland. The folks our tax dollars support. THEY know what it means. Maybe you all do "think you know what illegal means"... I "know" what illegal means... Crossing the border with the proper documents doesn't make anyone an illegal... staying here beyond the time you are allowed to stay without returning does... No parsing necessary... I stand corrected. I have no idea what illegal means.
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 6, 2015 10:44:38 GMT -5
Thank you for your honesty...
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Post by rentedmule on Mar 6, 2015 10:56:47 GMT -5
Thank you for your honesty... No problem! I'm just a citizen who had a business and employed folks. The government expected me to understand their policy on these matters. I only employed one non citizen over the years, but I did get the impression that the government folk meant business if I violated any of their policies. If I hired an illegal worker I faced significant penalties. Now, it seems I was misinformed.
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 6, 2015 11:14:58 GMT -5
I don't see why you feel like you were misinformed... you should have found out back then exactly what an illegal worker meant... and you'd know now... like I do...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 21:55:14 GMT -5
I don't see why you feel like you were misinformed... you should have found out back then exactly what an illegal worker meant... and you'd know now... like I do... Please enlighten me. What is an illegal worker? An unemployed American who attempts to find a job when he/she should be accepting government handouts in order to prescribe his/her standard of living at the level deemed acceptable?
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 6, 2015 22:31:29 GMT -5
How many of the people crossing the desert, escorted by coyotes, actually have legal paperwork entitling them to be here? If they had that they could walk through a border checkpoint. No reason to hazard their lives in the badlands of northern Mexico and southern Texas. So we can conclude that number is zero. And if they don't have paperwork entitling them to be here, they are an illegal alien.
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 7, 2015 1:07:03 GMT -5
There is no paperwork entitling them to be here other than a passport and ID... unless they stay here too long... and if they outstay their green card time here or don't have a SSN... they're an illegal worker...
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Post by aponderer on Mar 7, 2015 2:21:39 GMT -5
Sadly, you and baldeagle are the only liberals left on this forum. I doubt you'll get too many different answers. No, hence "may have gotten". On the other hand, your unwavering support for positions held by liberals and for Democrats suggests the general form of it. I'm used to those odds... and enjoy it... And while I do hold some "liberal" views... of which I am proud... I also support many, possibly even more, conservative views... and I'm proud of those as well... generally, I support both... IMHO being proud of ones views is probably human nature, unless one suffers from a form of masochism. I think it would be a rare person who held views that person would not be proud of (such as "I don't like old people and I hate myself for it")...
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 7, 2015 2:40:36 GMT -5
I was invited to a company meeting many years ago when I was a Local union president... when it came my turn to speak, I thanked them for the invitation... I told them it wasn't very often I got to talk to that many management people in the same room at the same time... I loved it because I was not intimidated... confidence does that to you...
That particular meeting (JP) is still remembered by many today after over 30 years... and the subject I brought to the discussion that day is still being practiced today (LGP)...
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Post by rentedmule on Mar 7, 2015 6:29:43 GMT -5
There is no paperwork entitling therm to be here other than a passport and ID... unless they stay here too long... and if they outstay their green card time here or don't have a SSN... they're an illegal worker... Sounds as though you have hired a lot of foreigners.
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Post by rocketwolf on Mar 7, 2015 8:34:22 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by rentedmule on Mar 7, 2015 8:45:40 GMT -5
How bout you rocket, know anything about how government regulators define illegal?
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 7, 2015 8:45:38 GMT -5
There is no paperwork entitling therm to be here other than a passport and ID... unless they stay here too long... and if they outstay their green card time here or don't have a SSN... they're an illegal worker... Sounds as though you have hired a lot of foreigners. No... but I didn't fall off a turnip truck either...
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Post by aboutwell on Mar 7, 2015 8:51:34 GMT -5
Part of the Immigration Nationality Act, the Immigration Reform and Control Act, or IRCA, makes it illegal to hire a worker who does not have citizenship or the authorization as a legal immigrant to work in the United States. Knowingly breaking this law can carry some serious consequences for your company.
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