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Post by breakingbad on Aug 21, 2015 13:40:25 GMT -5
Oh boy. I've got a stalker.
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Post by aboutwell on Aug 21, 2015 13:59:21 GMT -5
Yeah, one who pays attention to what you say... and quotes you when you attack other people for doing the same thing you attack them for doing...
You just got caught...
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Post by redleg on Aug 21, 2015 14:07:19 GMT -5
When did I ever say "religion is a guarantee of morality"? I said religion defines morality. If it weren't for religion, this subject wouldn't even be discussed, because no one would have a concept of "adultery", "pedophilia", or "dishonesty", since there would be no universal standard. It's equally possible that religion was invented as a way to teach morality. But, then, I do not believe its source is a supernatural being. And yet, you have yet to explain why every, single civilization anyone has ever heard of has a religion, where that religion came from, and why so many religions teach things that are not based on survival techniques.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Aug 21, 2015 14:47:53 GMT -5
It's equally possible that religion was invented as a way to teach morality. But, then, I do not believe its source is a supernatural being. And yet, you have yet to explain why every, single civilization anyone has ever heard of has a religion, where that religion came from, and why so many religions teach things that are not based on survival techniques. What religions teach things that aren't survival techniques? Could they be societal survival techniques? Created by early men who came to understand how larger than tribe-sized aggregations could benefit all? Most religions inherited a lot of their basic ideas from earlier religions - Christianity inherited Christmas Day and Easter from other religions. What I'm saying is that no one has proven convincingly that God exists. But prove me wrong. Construct and perform the experiment, and document the results.
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Post by redleg on Aug 21, 2015 14:59:02 GMT -5
And yet, you have yet to explain why every, single civilization anyone has ever heard of has a religion, where that religion came from, and why so many religions teach things that are not based on survival techniques. What religions teach things that aren't survival techniques? Could they be societal survival techniques? Created by early men who came to understand how larger than tribe-sized aggregations could benefit all? Most religions inherited a lot of their basic ideas from earlier religions - Christianity inherited Christmas Day and Easter from other religions. What I'm saying is that no one has proven convincingly that God exists. But prove me wrong. Construct and perform the experiment, and document the results. Both those days were sited to take advantage of pagan celebrations. However, caring for the elderly, who no longer contribute to the family or tribe, but do consume commodities, is not a survival trait. Not stealing from rival tribes or families is not a survival trait. Not killing anyone that is a stranger is not a survival trait. As for inheriting from earlier religions, the truth is the truth, regardless of who finds it, or proclaims it. There are universal truths, and God handed them down to all of us. The fact that there are different religions is attributable to man's inability to understand God's word all the time, or to the innate obstinance of mankind.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Aug 21, 2015 15:13:18 GMT -5
Both those days were sited to take advantage of pagan celebrations. Careful. Next you're going to be saying the Bible isn't literal truth. I think you get kicked out of the GOP for that! However, caring for the elderly, who no longer contribute to the family or tribe, but do consume commodities, is not a survival trait. Not stealing from rival tribes or families is not a survival trait. Not killing anyone that is a stranger is not a survival trait. All of these could be tribal survival techniques. To help the tribe grow and to keep its members (by assuring them they'll be looked after). In addition, lots of people take care of their parents (especially in their final years) because they personally love them. I did it, and I was a (horrors!) atheist at that time. What I knew was the enormous sacrifices my parents made on my behalf, for which I remain grateful to this day. As for inheriting from earlier religions, the truth is the truth, regardless of who finds it, or proclaims it. There are universal truths, and God handed them down to all of us. The fact that there are different religions is attributable to man's inability to understand God's word all the time, or to the innate obstinance of mankind. There's that questioning Biblical inerrancy thing, again. If one keeps going back and back and back, eventually one goes well before recorded history when no one really knows what happened, do they? So they can't really say a deity was involved, can they?
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Post by redleg on Aug 21, 2015 16:33:34 GMT -5
Both those days were sited to take advantage of pagan celebrations. Careful. Next you're going to be saying the Bible isn't literal truth. I think you get kicked out of the GOP for that! However, caring for the elderly, who no longer contribute to the family or tribe, but do consume commodities, is not a survival trait. Not stealing from rival tribes or families is not a survival trait. Not killing anyone that is a stranger is not a survival trait. All of these could be tribal survival techniques. To help the tribe grow and to keep its members (by assuring them they'll be looked after). In addition, lots of people take care of their parents (especially in their final years) because they personally love them. I did it, and I was a (horrors!) atheist at that time. What I knew was the enormous sacrifices my parents made on my behalf, for which I remain grateful to this day. As for inheriting from earlier religions, the truth is the truth, regardless of who finds it, or proclaims it. There are universal truths, and God handed them down to all of us. The fact that there are different religions is attributable to man's inability to understand God's word all the time, or to the innate obstinance of mankind. There's that questioning Biblical inerrancy thing, again. If one keeps going back and back and back, eventually one goes well before recorded history when no one really knows what happened, do they? So they can't really say a deity was involved, can they? Where does the Bible mention Christmas? Or Easter? And since they were living a subsistence living, how could starving the tribe to care for the elderly be a 'survival' trait? The modern idea of caring for ones' parents didn't really get going until Israel and the Hebrews. It was a Biblical commandment, don't you know. 10 Commandments and all that. The fact that you personally took care of your parents is neither here nor there. Society today tells us to do so, regardless of their condition. And that comes from the Judeo-Christian tradition. Most of us care for our parents, because we love them, but wouldn't consider doing so unless society told us it was the correct thing to do. Otherwise, we'd be shunned, even banned from the 'tribe', because we were using supplies that were needed elsewhere. Yes, we can. Even Neanderthal buried their dead. With treasures. That indicates worship of a deity. There is no recorded civilization that didn't, and doesn't, have a deity. Although today, the Left worships government as their deity.
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Post by aboutwell on Aug 21, 2015 16:57:44 GMT -5
Careful. Next you're going to be saying the Bible isn't literal truth. I think you get kicked out of the GOP for that! All of these could be tribal survival techniques. To help the tribe grow and to keep its members (by assuring them they'll be looked after). In addition, lots of people take care of their parents (especially in their final years) because they personally love them. I did it, and I was a (horrors!) atheist at that time. What I knew was the enormous sacrifices my parents made on my behalf, for which I remain grateful to this day. There's that questioning Biblical inerrancy thing, again. If one keeps going back and back and back, eventually one goes well before recorded history when no one really knows what happened, do they? So they can't really say a deity was involved, can they? Where does the Bible mention Christmas? Or Easter? And since they were living a subsistence living, how could starving the tribe to care for the elderly be a 'survival' trait? The modern idea of caring for ones' parents didn't really get going until Israel and the Hebrews. It was a Biblical commandment, don't you know. 10 Commandments and all that. The fact that you personally took care of your parents is neither here nor there. Society today tells us to do so, regardless of their condition. And that comes from the Judeo-Christian tradition. Most of us care for our parents, because we love them, but wouldn't consider doing so unless society told us it was the correct thing to do. Otherwise, we'd be shunned, even banned from the 'tribe', because we were using supplies that were needed elsewhere. Yes, we can. Even Neanderthal buried their dead. With treasures. That indicates worship of a deity. There is no recorded civilization that didn't, and doesn't, have a deity. Although today, the Left worships government as their deity. You're eat up with it, Redleg... I sure don't want any of that...
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Post by Evil Yoda on Aug 21, 2015 17:10:02 GMT -5
Where does the Bible mention Christmas? Or Easter? It mentions the events they celebrate. That doesn't count? And since they were living a subsistence living, how could starving the tribe to care for the elderly be a 'survival' trait? Could people do that because they hope their own children will care for them when that time comes? The idea that one will be cared for when one cannot care for one's self (which is NOT welfare as defined today) is pretty fundamental to tribalism. It brings in people with valuable skills. Society today tells us to do so, regardless of their condition. And that comes from the Judeo-Christian tradition. Most of us care for our parents, because we love them, but wouldn't consider doing so unless society told us it was the correct thing to do. You might not. I would have. No one told me to do it. Yes, we can. Even Neanderthal buried their dead. With treasures. That indicates worship of a deity. There is no recorded civilization that didn't, and doesn't, have a deity. Although today, the Left worships government as their deity. Unless you spoke to a Neanderthal who told you this, you have no idea what it means. Be careful not to decide your speculation is certainty. It's easy to make errors that way. That's why (as I've said) I'm prepared to accept the existence of a god (or being functionally indistinguishable from a god) when I receive sufficient proof.
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Post by redleg on Aug 21, 2015 17:24:16 GMT -5
Where does the Bible mention Christmas? Or Easter? And since they were living a subsistence living, how could starving the tribe to care for the elderly be a 'survival' trait? The modern idea of caring for ones' parents didn't really get going until Israel and the Hebrews. It was a Biblical commandment, don't you know. 10 Commandments and all that. The fact that you personally took care of your parents is neither here nor there. Society today tells us to do so, regardless of their condition. And that comes from the Judeo-Christian tradition. Most of us care for our parents, because we love them, but wouldn't consider doing so unless society told us it was the correct thing to do. Otherwise, we'd be shunned, even banned from the 'tribe', because we were using supplies that were needed elsewhere. Yes, we can. Even Neanderthal buried their dead. With treasures. That indicates worship of a deity. There is no recorded civilization that didn't, and doesn't, have a deity. Although today, the Left worships government as their deity. You're eat up with it, Redleg... I sure don't want any of that... You've got it, whether you want it or not. You've got the EPA polluting rivers, just so they can take over private property, you've got the IRS going after anyone The Puppet and his owners don't like, you've got the NAZI Soros buying up coal mines, because The Puppet has made them cheap, you've got the Feds dumping billions into 'green energy' scams, and bankrupting actual energy suppliers, and you've got a traitor and idiot leading the Democrat candidates. Good luck, we'll all need it.
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Post by rocketwolf on Aug 22, 2015 7:18:25 GMT -5
Watching an atheist and a far far right winger argue the bible and religion IS NOT as interesting OR enlightening as one might expect at first blush. But carry on carrying on guys
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