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Post by Ravenchamp on Nov 3, 2013 21:36:15 GMT -5
I don't see post season this year but I do see them coming back to greatness next season.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 3, 2013 21:44:42 GMT -5
The Baltimore Ravens don't scare anyone anymore. They don't have the same defense, firepower or swagger.
The defending Super Bowl champions are wobbling.Pretty much says it all.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 3, 2013 21:47:05 GMT -5
I don't see post season this year but I do see them coming back to greatness next season. If they make a lot of changes, maybe. They are a very bad football team. The question then becomes: do they have talent that the coaches can't use right? Or did Ozzie go too far in jettisoning players last year? Flacco is making some mental mistakes. The offensive line is very nearly worthless. Ray Rice looks old and done. Receivers are inconsistent. And the next time the Ravens play offense and defense for the entire game will be the first time this year. Dumervil isn't getting much done himself but he is making it impossible to double team Suggs, which has improved the pass rush. But the secondary is weak, with only occasional flashes of competence. The defense can't generate turnovers. Special teams are inconsistent: good one play, screwing up the next. They have many things to fix and I'm not convinced this coaching staff knows how to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 22:01:13 GMT -5
As of this time, the Ravens will have a very top-heavy $70.9 million committed to just six players for 2014--Flacco, Suggs, Webb, Ngata, Yanda and Ray Rice. The salary cap is not expected to move much from its current $123 million threshold, so the Ravens may find themselves clipping coupons in order to try and put together a competitive roster for next year. There are also a number of unrestricted free agents--including Pitta, Jacoby and Arthur Jones and Daryl Smith--who may be difficult to retain due to budget restraints. It's the cost of winning.
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Post by drjohnnyfever on Nov 3, 2013 22:35:32 GMT -5
It was interesting watching what appeared to be a bunch of raven cast-offs best the defending champs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 22:41:47 GMT -5
OK, you nay sayers. Who will be available at round about the 6th pick in the draft?
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Post by highmc2 on Nov 3, 2013 22:52:13 GMT -5
This was never a championship team. It was a 3-4 yr plan ever since the final second ticked off in New Orleans.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 23:23:24 GMT -5
OK, you nay sayers. Who will be available at round about the 6th pick in the draft? At this point, the Ravens could throw a dart at just about any offensive position and pick a guy. If they finish 6-10, then the Ravens would probably project to draft anywhere from about 8 to 12. Tennessee was 6-10 last season and selected 10th in the draft. I've seen about four offensive linemen project as possible top 10 selections, beginning with Jake Matthews of Texas A&M. Taking an offensive lineman in the first round won't necessarily sell tickets, but as we've seen with the Ravens thus far this season, poor line play practically guarantees that an offense will remain stuck in neutral.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 23:29:57 GMT -5
OK, you nay sayers. Who will be available at round about the 6th pick in the draft? At this point, the Ravens could throw a dart at just about any offensive position and pick a guy. If they finish 6-10, then the Ravens would probably project to draft anywhere from about 8 to 12. Tennessee was 6-10 last season and selected 10th in the draft. I've seen about four offensive linemen project as possible top 10 selections, beginning with Jake Matthews of Texas A&M. Taking an offensive lineman in the first round won't necessarily sell tickets, but as we've seen with the Ravens thus far this season, poor line play practically guarantees that an offense will remain stuck in neutral. O linemen make a LOT of money.... there's a reason for that. I watch little to no college so I have no idea who's out there. Has lil Ray's magic run out and might there be a serious scat back available? The Wizard Of Oz takes the best player available, it's woked well so far.
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Post by oscar on Nov 4, 2013 7:54:28 GMT -5
OK, you nay sayers. Who will be available at round about the 6th pick in the draft? At this point, the Ravens could throw a dart at just about any offensive position and pick a guy. If they finish 6-10, then the Ravens would probably project to draft anywhere from about 8 to 12. Tennessee was 6-10 last season and selected 10th in the draft. I've seen about four offensive linemen project as possible top 10 selections, beginning with Jake Matthews of Texas A&M. Taking an offensive lineman in the first round won't necessarily sell tickets, but as we've seen with the Ravens thus far this season, poor line play practically guarantees that an offense will remain stuck in neutral. It all starts in the coaching. They have talent every where, young talent for the most part. Look over the games, they could easily have and where in position to win every game but the Denver game. This, without a running game. So we all know the line stinks, it wasn't great last year, but not tis had and losing just one player is not the reason. So obviously the line coach and supportive staff need to be looked at closely. Now, look at the receivers, talent yes, speed, yes, but the type of speed that takes a clean release and 15 yards to get going. They all young but all the same receiver. Did you see the close up shots of Smith running a simple out route? He runs it the same way every time and runs it backward. That is why the DB is easily able to change direction with him. Smith is only good on crossing routes and deep passes and only IF Flacco gets a full 3 seconds or more to throw. The other three are good 3# receivers, all of them. Brown has the more consitant hands of the bunch and you can see his potential in his route running. Yet, all of them telegraph their routes. As soon as they take two steps off the line of scrimmage, you know what route they are running and if it is man coverage, forget finding an open person. Even when they do run proper routes, how many defenders are around them when they atch the ball? Most times, 2, other times, 3. Why? Because the other receivers tend to stack their routes. They either run the wrong route, run them at the improper depth or run them too fast/slow. This is why you rarely see a wide open run after the catch play for the Ravens. Sure, you seen a few, against zone. Rice, say what you want, but he either lost his quickness due to the past FEW years of pounding or, he took the off season, off completly and is heavier than he used to be. It is obvious,his quickness is gone, he can no longer make a man miss in the open field. Thus why the swing passes never work. The few times the team had positive, 4 + yards rushing on a play, it was in the A/B gaps, straight ahead blocking. But they rarely run that any more, again, coaching. Coaching the receivers also has to be looked at, based on what I outlined above. If I, a couch jockey, can see the obvious issues with the routes being run, surely the coaches know. So either the receivers are too dumb to understand, or the coaches are teaching them to run them this way. Play calling/design. I know, Caldwell is a genious. Tell me, why would you line up a bunch set inside the numbers when you know your receivers are not quick a foot? To only then run the ball from that formation? Lining them up there helps the defense when you run. why? Because then you have 9 in the box, there is no room to run especially when none of the receivers can block very well. As for the draft, lots of talent in this coming draft, they drafted some good players over the years, but Coaching has been subpar over the past five years. Yes, they wona Super Bowl, yes, they made the playoffs each of those years. But as you stated, winning costs, especially if you either don't select the right players each year to develop or you do not teach them properly. Ozzy & his staff have shown they can chose players, but the coaches have not shown they can teach. Same goes for the Steelers and why they stink this year. Tomlin, on any other team, would be on the hot seat. Look at his year by year record. All his winnings came with Cower's players.
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Post by com6063 on Nov 4, 2013 8:58:22 GMT -5
Craptacular, Ravens.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Nov 4, 2013 9:06:33 GMT -5
I don't see post season this year but I do see them coming back to greatness next season. If they make a lot of changes, maybe. They are a very bad football team. The question then becomes: do they have talent that the coaches can't use right? Or did Ozzie go too far in jettisoning players last year? Flacco is making some mental mistakes. The offensive line is very nearly worthless. Ray Rice looks old and done. Receivers are inconsistent. And the next time the Ravens play offense and defense for the entire game will be the first time this year. Dumervil isn't getting much done himself but he is making it impossible to double team Suggs, which has improved the pass rush. But the secondary is weak, with only occasional flashes of competence. The defense can't generate turnovers. Special teams are inconsistent: good one play, screwing up the next. They have many things to fix and I'm not convinced this coaching staff knows how to do it. I will agree highly about the O line, they are terrible, and I'm sick of seeing Joe have to run for his life
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Post by alienrace on Nov 4, 2013 11:14:27 GMT -5
It really all begins and ends with the o-line, but the defense's inablity to come up with a stop when the game is on the line, has reared it's head three games in a row. This isn't a "bad" team, it's just inconsistent, in all three phases of the game. I'm still not giving up on the season just yet. They could very well go 6-2 in the second half, and while I'm not entirely optimistic about that, as they have yet to show me that they can be consistent, if they managed to pull it off, they may very well win the division if two of those wins are over what is now a depleted Bengals team. Well, at least the Flying Yinzer's are in the cellar this year, that's some bit of solace
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 4, 2013 14:52:49 GMT -5
I don't believe they have 6-2 in them. I believe they'll be lucky to manage 3-5 the rest of the way out to finish 6-10. It's possible they'll do worse. I think they can beat the Vikings, and maybe the Steelers when they come here, and maybe the Jets. Everybody else, they're going to lose to.
There was an article about this on the team's site, written by Sarah Ellison, a collection of comments and impressions from players. The last time I saw a team this dispirited was Billick's last year. I don't think Harbaugh is in danger, even if they finish 4-12. Not this year. But... there will be a shakeup in the coaching, and if they can't come roaring back next year, that will be Harbaugh's last.
The offensive line is simply not getting it done, and the rest of the team isn't doing much better. It's as if they've been infected by a pernicious malaise now that they've experienced things atypical for the Ravens of recent years: a three game losing streak, a loss to the Browns after years of dominating them, losses to other rather bad teams (the Steelers, the Bills), and a complete inability to correct these problems on the part of coaches or players or both. Joe has begun to make mistakes and every other unit is performing inconsistently. Harbaugh cannot seem to motivate them out of the doldrums. Clearly they depended on Lewis' leadership far more than folks' realized.
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Post by alienrace on Nov 4, 2013 15:14:38 GMT -5
So by that logic, is this Mike Tomlin's final year?
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 4, 2013 15:19:14 GMT -5
So by that logic, is this Mike Tomlin's final year? Hard to say. Different owner, different culture. Do recall that Bis altered course rather abruptly in handling Billick's firing. Exactly what changed his mind so suddenly, we'll probably never know. Or, did he already plan to fire the man and simply blew smoke about it ahead of time. We'll never know that, either. In his other companies Bis has a reputation of quickly dispensing with those who can't do what he hired them to do; he is not a man with a reputation of laxity in personnel decisions or for giving second chances. So far, almost everyone working for the Ravens has done what they were hired to do. So we don't really know yet whether he'll run them the same way.
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Post by alienrace on Nov 4, 2013 15:22:54 GMT -5
Biscotti has said several times he values continuity in the coaching staff. The Billick decision was very tough for him, he's admitted. There was more behind the scenes than people realized too.
Also, Billick hadn't won a playoff game since 2001 when he was fired.
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Post by Ravenchamp on Nov 4, 2013 15:57:26 GMT -5
This is just a minor bump for Harbs and the team, it will be corrected.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 4, 2013 16:58:00 GMT -5
Biscotti has said several times he values continuity in the coaching staff. The Billick decision was very tough for him, he's admitted. There was more behind the scenes than people realized too. Also, Billick hadn't won a playoff game since 2001 when he was fired. Well, we'll see. I see these possibilities: 1) they shed too much talent and now must rebuild - except they kept a lot of talent but most of those guys just aren't playing well. 2) the leadership losses in the locker room took a toll. A party bus? At least they got rid of that waste. 3) the coach has lost the locker room. 4) the team does not know how to cope with adversity, having experienced relatively little of it in recent years.
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Post by alienrace on Nov 4, 2013 17:05:03 GMT -5
I don't think he's lost the locker room. There have been no rumblings of that, and when when players have shown that they are in that mind set, they've been shown the door. Billick's problem was he was too lax with certain players, and it created cliques which caused him to lose authority. I don't see anything like that with Harbaugh.
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Post by towsongirl on Nov 4, 2013 17:21:43 GMT -5
A couple weeks ago my husband won tickets to the Ravens-Bengals game on Sunday so I guess we'll be there live...to see either a pivotal win (hopefully) or another sad loss from which perhaps the team can't recover.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 18:22:43 GMT -5
A couple weeks ago my husband won tickets to the Ravens-Bengals game on Sunday so I guess we'll be there live...to see either a pivotal win (hopefully) or another sad loss from which perhaps the team can't recover. I think I would look good with that ticket, you're invited too!
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Post by douger on Nov 4, 2013 18:49:10 GMT -5
The "zone" blocking scheme that the O line is using. A lot of people are pointing to that as the reason they suck. Are they past the point in the season where they can go back to man blocking, or are we protecting Juan Castillo?
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Post by bowiebruce on Nov 4, 2013 19:52:56 GMT -5
Listening on sports talk radio this morning, it was noted that the Ravens running game has the worst yards per carry average EVER for an NFL season. If that sorry statistic is in fact true (and watching them, I don't doubt it), in that context it's hard to believe the Ravens have managed to win 3 games. Across the board, you can point out that the play of every single offensive lineman, along with Rice and Pierce, has declined this season.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 1:46:37 GMT -5
At this point, the Ravens could throw a dart at just about any offensive position and pick a guy. If they finish 6-10, then the Ravens would probably project to draft anywhere from about 8 to 12. Tennessee was 6-10 last season and selected 10th in the draft. I've seen about four offensive linemen project as possible top 10 selections, beginning with Jake Matthews of Texas A&M. Taking an offensive lineman in the first round won't necessarily sell tickets, but as we've seen with the Ravens thus far this season, poor line play practically guarantees that an offense will remain stuck in neutral. Very well done and for the most part I agree with you. As I believe I stated previously, one of the big problems I see is coaches trying to get players to adapt to their schemes and philosophies rather than creating a system based on the talent that's there. That might work in college, but not at the pro level. More specifically, I think Pees needs to go. His schemes are boring and largely ineffective. Yes, the Ravens lost mainstays Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, but they've always operated under a "next man up" philosophy. When one guy left, someone else was ready to step in and fill his shoes. We aren't getting that now and I think some of that comes back to the coordinator. The packages are soft and contain few stunts or blitzes and it's all very unimaginative. I was never enamored with Jim Caldwell to begin with, and his offense has all the flash and dash of a fig. Either he's been having lunch with Cam Cameron every week or Harbaugh's putting the clamps on him, I don't know. And I still don't understand why they decided to bring in Juan Castillo, who has been about as miscast as a porcupine in a hot air balloon. Zone blocking isn't foreign to the Ravens; they used it during their Super Bowl run, but their linemen are better suited to man schemes, which typically mandate blocking assignments before the snap. With zone, communication after the snap is critical, and that's where the Ravens have had problems. In such a scheme, if one guy misses an assignment, the whole thing goes to hell. It also doesn't help that the tight ends and receivers are lousy blockers. Agreed. Poor route running, however, isn't something that afflicted the Ravens just this season. Even in their good years, they typically ran routes that would allow one defensive back to cover two receivers. Smith can put up some big numbers, but he disappears for long stretches, mostly for reasons you stated. There's no reliable third-down receiver, and when Dallas Clark is your most consistent over the middle guy, that spells trouble. Maybe all that changes if Pitta comes back hale and healthy next season, but this is where they really miss Boldin. People look at his totals with the Niners this season and might think that the Ravens made the right decision to trade him, but sometimes it isn't how many you catch, but when. On several occasions this season, Boldin kept a touchdown drive going with a key third-down grab, just as he did here numerous times. A tight end would help as well. Maybe not a Vernon Davis/Rob Gronkowski type, but at least someone that linebackers have to key on once in a while. Ed Dickson is a waste of a roster spot. He started showing signs of decline last year and it's just carried into this season. Like a lot of smallish backs, Rice is paying the price for a heavy workload earlier in his career. What should really concern the Ravens is that a number of their highest priced players--Rice, Ngata, Webb and Yanda are not justifying their big cap numbers. In fairness, Webb is working his way back from an ACL injury, but his propensity for getting hurt makes his $10 million+ cap number very scary. This might not go over with those who think Flacco is above reproach, but he has to be held accountable as well. He hasn't done badly considering that he has no running game, no go-to receiver, and an offensive line that would have trouble blocking a stalled car, but he still makes too many bad throws and questionable decisions. He largely deserves a mulligan, but he's certainly not playing like the $120 million quarterback the Ravens are paying him to be. Again, trying to fit players into schemes they're not suited for. I believe it was Bill Walsh who said that on offense, you can scheme your way through mediocre talent. Obviously none of the Ravens coaches have ever studied Bill Walsh. But while there's little doubt that they're being hogtied by old-school football thinking, that ultimately comes back to the head coach, who can designate as much or as little authority as he chooses. Maybe Harbaugh is reluctant to hire fresh young talent on the coaching staff since they're the guys who are usually first in line for your job. I think if the Steelers find themselves among the top 10 in the draft, Tomlin's seat gets a little hotter. The Ravens likely won't sink that far, but they just may want to consider doing what they did back in 2002, when they purged the roster and were surprisingly competitive the entire season.
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