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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 16:54:33 GMT -5
And that's just it. A lot of us would probably be sitting on Linux/Unix if it weren't for software we want to use. Open Office is pretty decent (the way it defines a frame is superior to word in my opinion) but there are many programs that are and will remain window only.
I resent how much Windows seems to have a mind of its own, changing its behavior even when you have changed nothing. And it's amazing how much of a chatterbox, windows and any applications on windows are when examining network traffic.
I've lived in the unix environment before and while the configuration learning curves were greater, the dependability was superior because a setting meant the workstation or server behaved the same way month after month, year after year often without rebooting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 17:06:59 GMT -5
And that's just it. A lot of us would probably be sitting on Linux/Unix if it weren't for software we want to use. Open Office is pretty decent (the way it defines a frame is superior to word in my opinion) but there are many programs that are and will remain window only. I resent how much Windows seems to have a mind of its own, changing its behavior even when you have changed nothing. And it's amazing how much of a chatterbox, windows and any applications on windows are when examining network traffic. I've lived in the unix environment before and while the configuration learning curves were greater, the dependability was superior because a setting meant the workstation or server behaved the same way month after month, year after year often without rebooting. I've used both for many years (25+ years in computers). I've done everything form desktop support, management, software evaluation, trainer, technical documentation, development (.NET, Java, etc.) and I am now a database developer/dba). In my opinion, for the average user, either OS will do more than they'll ever need and both are very reliable. You can ramble on and on about how secure this OS is over that OS, but anyone who's been around computers knows that if the world was running on OSX or Unix/Linux then people would break into them. Sure, it might be harder. Smart people built the OS's and other smart people would break into them if everyone was using it. |
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Post by alienrace on Mar 15, 2014 17:18:12 GMT -5
As a software developer, I loathe the people who still cling to XP. Some of it is budgetary, some of it is people dislike change. Truth is XP was and is an OS full of security holes, and will not run a lot of current software due to it's shell file operations being deprecated starting with Vista. Win 7 is far superior, and it's not exactly much of a learning curve. The truth is underneath the GUI, Win 7 and Win 8 are for the most part identical. Most people hate Win 8 because they don't like they GUI and are not used to it. Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone. Millions of folks think its fine for email, basic word processing and spreadsheets, itunes, photo's, facebook, etc. Seriously, if it is meeting a person's needs, why should you loathe them for not wanting to have to buy new software or a new computer they don't believe they need? Well friend, I deal with clients who think that the software that I develop "should" run on XP and they get upset when it doesn't, and depending on that client and the clout they carry, it sometimes forces me to fork code into parallel codebases so that they can continue to use our software on their beloved dinosaur OS's. So it winds up creating a lot of extra work that often produces a watered down product for those people to use, and then we have to support the forked software as well. It becomes a pain, both in development time/costs, as well as support time/costs. So I'm definitely ready to do my happy dance when XP support is finally dropped once and for all. So yes...I looooooaaathe them  (Said in my best Newman voice). Now if you want to keep hurling personal attacks at me, go right ahead. Still waiting for your PM to see exactly what your problem with me is. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 17:26:22 GMT -5
Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone. Millions of folks think its fine for email, basic word processing and spreadsheets, itunes, photo's, facebook, etc. Seriously, if it is meeting a person's needs, why should you loathe them for not wanting to have to buy new software or a new computer they don't believe they need? Well friend, I deal with clients who think that the software that I develop "should" run on XP and they get upset when it doesn't, and depending on that client and the clout they carry, it sometimes forces me to fork code into parallel codebases so that they can continue to use our software on their beloved dinosaur OS's. So it winds up creating a lot of extra work that often produces a watered down product for those people to use, and then we have to support the forked software as well. It becomes a pain, both in development time/costs, as well as support time/costs. So I'm definitely ready to do my happy dance when XP support is finally dropped once and for all. So yes...I looooooaaathe them (Said in my best Newman voice). Now if you want to keep hurling personal attacks at me, go right ahead. Still waiting for your PM to see exactly what your problem with me is. Frankly, I think you should be mad at your company for continuing to make you port your software to this dino. Obviously though there is enough market there to make some money, or at least they feel there is. I guess since there in business to make money ... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 18:22:24 GMT -5
Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone. Millions of folks think its fine for email, basic word processing and spreadsheets, itunes, photo's, facebook, etc. Seriously, if it is meeting a person's needs, why should you loathe them for not wanting to have to buy new software or a new computer they don't believe they need? Well friend, I deal with clients who think that the software that I develop "should" run on XP and they get upset when it doesn't, and depending on that client and the clout they carry, it sometimes forces me to fork code into parallel codebases so that they can continue to use our software on their beloved dinosaur OS's. So it winds up creating a lot of extra work that often produces a watered down product for those people to use, and then we have to support the forked software as well. It becomes a pain, both in development time/costs, as well as support time/costs. So I'm definitely ready to do my happy dance when XP support is finally dropped once and for all. So yes...I looooooaaathe them (Said in my best Newman voice). Now if you want to keep hurling personal attacks at me, go right ahead. Still waiting for your PM to see exactly what your problem with me is. What kind of features/libaries are on the VS 2012 environment or associated objects that you would have to go out of your way to write code for to accommodate if someone said, that all their systems were XP only? |
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Post by alienrace on Mar 15, 2014 18:34:44 GMT -5
What kind of features/libaries are on the VS 2012 environment or associated objects that you would have to go out of your way to write code for to accommodate if someone said, that all their systems were XP only? Shell file operations for one, which often permeates a codebase. It's not a VS thing, it's an XP thing vs Vista/7/8 thing. There are also a variety of GUI features that work in in Vista/7/8 that do not work on XP. |
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Post by husagafella on Mar 15, 2014 19:21:58 GMT -5
Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone. Millions of folks think its fine for email, basic word processing and spreadsheets, itunes, photo's, facebook, etc. Seriously, if it is meeting a person's needs, why should you loathe them for not wanting to have to buy new software or a new computer they don't believe they need? Well friend, I deal with clients who think that the software that I develop "should" run on XP and they get upset when it doesn't, and depending on that client and the clout they carry, it sometimes forces me to fork code into parallel codebases so that they can continue to use our software on their beloved dinosaur OS's. So it winds up creating a lot of extra work that often produces a watered down product for those people to use, and then we have to support the forked software as well. It becomes a pain, both in development time/costs, as well as support time/costs. So I'm definitely ready to do my happy dance when XP support is finally dropped once and for all. So yes...I looooooaaathe them (Said in my best Newman voice). Now if you want to keep hurling personal attacks at me, go right ahead. Still waiting for your PM to see exactly what your problem with me is. For the 10th time, when someone responds to one of your posts, its not a personal attack. Wow, you really think the world revolves around you. This is a public board and folks post stuff and others respond. Everyone else was discussing technology but you attacked the end users so that was a position that invited a response. As to your response, if adapting your product to XP isn't worth the effort, don't do it, tell them to go pound sand. If it is worth it, suck it up and make the change. It's probably not a good thing to loathe your customers. If it bothers you that much maybe your shouldn't be playing in the end user / consumer world and stick to network operations, database admin, etc. Really not all that complicated. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 15, 2014 20:20:52 GMT -5
What kind of features/libaries are on the VS 2012 environment or associated objects that you would have to go out of your way to write code for to accommodate if someone said, that all their systems were XP only? Microsoft is very fond of changing how things work, especially in the shell, between OS versions. Sometimes these changes are because the new shell doesn't support something the old shell did. Other times, it's for the same reason a dog licks his cash and prizes: because they can. |
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Post by alienrace on Mar 16, 2014 1:52:09 GMT -5
For the 10th time, when someone responds to one of your posts, its not a personal attack. Wow, you really think the world revolves around you. This is a public board and folks post stuff and others respond. "Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone." Just for the record.... |
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Post by rocketwolf on Mar 16, 2014 7:12:06 GMT -5
I bet he makes his loathed customers so happy to have to deal with him.
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Post by husagafella on Mar 16, 2014 9:30:05 GMT -5
For the 10th time, when someone responds to one of your posts, its not a personal attack. Wow, you really think the world revolves around you. This is a public board and folks post stuff and others respond. "Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone." Just for the record.... Wa, wa, wa. Its a valid point. You don't see anyone coming to your defense or the hyper sensitive moderators saying its a personal attack. As hard as it is for you to believe, its about your statement and opinions and not about you. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 9:35:04 GMT -5
For the 10th time, when someone responds to one of your posts, its not a personal attack. Wow, you really think the world revolves around you. This is a public board and folks post stuff and others respond. "Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone." Just for the record....  |
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Post by husagafella on Mar 16, 2014 9:38:40 GMT -5
"Wow, you "loathe" people that "cling" to XP. You sound just like one of those liberal elitist that know what is best for everyone." Just for the record.... That's one way to handle it. The other is to put your big boy pants on and discuss your opinions like an adult. And you wonder why this board is down to less than a dozen regulars. |
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Post by alienrace on Mar 16, 2014 10:39:36 GMT -5
No, I think you do not understand the validity of my original point. Microsoft's extended support for XP created considerable headaches for software developers, and forced software companies to concurrently support XP along side of them, costing money and manpower that could have been better spent elsewhere. So yes, it was a thorn in our collective sides that XP hung around for so long, and that users of XP complained when software no longer worked on it. It's not about being "elitist" at all, it's about being practical, and realizing that if you use a dinosaur of an OS, you simply can't expect newer software to run on it. Do you run XP?
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Post by rocketwolf on Mar 16, 2014 12:14:19 GMT -5
You know I think its TS for software developers to have to do 2 programs,
maybe if they did a better job in the first place.
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Post by alienrace on Mar 16, 2014 12:59:17 GMT -5
You know I think its TS for software developers to have to do 2 programs, maybe if they did a better job in the first place. Huh? It's not the developers fault that Windows deprecates certain parts of the OS over the years. Are developers supposed to not take advantage of new features that modern OS's offer? C'mon man. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 13:03:13 GMT -5
You know I think its TS for software developers to have to do 2 programs, maybe if they did a better job in the first place. Says the person who doesn't write software. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 16, 2014 13:06:36 GMT -5
You know I think its TS for software developers to have to do 2 programs, maybe if they did a better job in the first place. If you wrote software for a living I would consider your opinion. Do you? |
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Post by rocketwolf on Mar 16, 2014 13:06:42 GMT -5
Are not people to be allowed to stick with what they want and like?
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Post by rocketwolf on Mar 16, 2014 13:08:21 GMT -5
You know I think its TS for software developers to have to do 2 programs, maybe if they did a better job in the first place. If you wrote software for a living I would consider your opinion. Do you? No but my opinion is still valid as a user. |
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Post by rocketwolf on Mar 16, 2014 13:13:29 GMT -5
after my last Win update I had 500$ worth of software become useless,
to update it would have cost another $400 ripoff. I said screw you thief
and put it on an old laptop, where it resides today.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 13:14:45 GMT -5
Are not people to be allowed to stick with what they want and like? Yes. But they also must understand that at some point, depending on the thing, that it becomes obsolete. You don't by a circa 1940's car expecting to find parts at Pep Boys do you? Technology is no different. You want to stick with XP have at it. But don't expect newer software to work on it or to be able to even run it on newer hardware. |
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 16, 2014 13:15:48 GMT -5
Nothing prevents you from using XP as long as you care to, save perhaps prudence: when Microsoft stops supporting it, that simply means you can't get help and they won't issue any more patches for security holes. It is not reasonable to expect a company to support old products indefinitely unless they sell that service and you buy it.
Newer versions of software sometimes do not work with older operating systems because all operating systems expose system services: things you can get the system to do for you. If newer software runs on an old operating system, this call may fail. Likewise, sometimes services are removed from newer versions of the operating system, so running old software on a new operating system fails. This happens because the service has been replaced by a newer service, or because the service isn't relevant or makes no sense for some reason in the new environment, or for security reasons, or because the vendor does not wish to expend resources supporting something it has discovered few pieces of software use.
That said, Microsoft is a big fan of fixing things that aren't broken, as when they took the perfectly suitable Win7 interface and replaced it with the horrible Win8 interface. Users answer that kind of stupidity they way they have: they avoid Win8 in large numbers or they bellyache, and Microsoft (sometimes) backs down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 13:17:34 GMT -5
You know I think its TS for software developers to have to do 2 programs, maybe if they did a better job in the first place. If you wrote software for a living I would consider your opinion. Do you? Typical opinion of software developers. The one field I have worked in where there are more people (% wise) who think their chit don't stink. You don't have to write software for a living to have an opinion. You're not a politician but you have plenty to say on that. You don't build cars but you know what you like right? |
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Post by rocketwolf on Mar 16, 2014 13:20:49 GMT -5
Are not people to be allowed to stick with what they want and like? Yes. But they also must understand that at some point, depending on the thing, that it becomes obsolete. You don't by a circa 1940's car expecting to find parts at Pep Boys do you? Technology is no different. You want to stick with XP have at it. But don't expect newer software to work on or to be able to even run it on newer hardware. No I get them at Moss there is no Pep boys near me anyway. |
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(Said in my best Newman voice). 
