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Post by douger on Nov 11, 2013 22:01:15 GMT -5
I disagree-the insurers could turn this around quickly if legislation is passed soon but they can only comply with the law as written. I suspect you're right - getting back to a place where they were (and have been) shouldn't be all that difficult. But this is hypothetical. It could, in fact, be a massive challenge. Especially if there's no reason to believe going back will be permanent. Leave it for me to see the darkness - but do you think Obama would sign a bill that would knock the knees out of his "legacy?" There's a reason all of those people lost their coverage. The insurance companies need them to pay the higher premiums they're facing to cover the new claims based on all of the "goodness" of Obamacare such as preexisting conditions. I don't think it's a simple matter of writing a couple pages of legislation. Proper legislation, I'm thinking, will have to wind through the tentacles of existing law to make sure it doesn't make things worse. The good thing? Both houses are working on this legislation and it's a pair of Democrats in the Senate working on their bill. The iffy thing? Will it have enough votes to override a veto?
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 11, 2013 22:06:19 GMT -5
I suspect you're right - getting back to a place where they were (and have been) shouldn't be all that difficult. But this is hypothetical. It could, in fact, be a massive challenge. Especially if there's no reason to believe going back will be permanent. Leave it for me to see the darkness - but do you think Obama would sign a bill that would knock the knees out of his "legacy?" That depends on whether or not he opens his eyes and realizes his "legacy" is an unmitigated disaster. My suspicion is he's not that bright. And this is why I'm thinking the Democrats will continue to let their pride get the better of them, no matter how much harm this does, and people it kills. And make no mistake, if Obamacare isn't unwound quickly, it will kill A LOT of people.
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Post by douger on Nov 11, 2013 22:13:04 GMT -5
Leave it for me to see the darkness - but do you think Obama would sign a bill that would knock the knees out of his "legacy?" That depends on whether or not he opens his eyes and realizes his "legacy" is an unmitigated disaster. My suspicion is he's not that bright. And this is why I'm thinking the Democrats will continue to let their pride get the better of them, no matter how much harm this does, and people it kills. And make no mistake, if Obamacare isn't unwound quickly, it will kill A LOT of people. I think I posted in this thread that there was a meeting in the White House last week. A dozen Dem senators, all up for reelection next year, none were reported to be happy campers. I believe there are cracks in their armor of unity. Whether they can be exploited remains to be seen.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 11, 2013 22:40:41 GMT -5
That depends on whether or not he opens his eyes and realizes his "legacy" is an unmitigated disaster. My suspicion is he's not that bright. And this is why I'm thinking the Democrats will continue to let their pride get the better of them, no matter how much harm this does, and people it kills. And make no mistake, if Obamacare isn't unwound quickly, it will kill A LOT of people. I think I posted in this thread that there was a meeting in the White House last week. A dozen Dem senators, all up for reelection next year, none were reported to be happy campers. I believe there are cracks in their armor of unity. Whether they can be exploited remains to be seen. Unless Harry Reid was one of them, I really don't see anything moving through the Senate.
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Post by drjohnnyfever on Nov 11, 2013 22:42:43 GMT -5
That depends on whether or not he opens his eyes and realizes his "legacy" is an unmitigated disaster. My suspicion is he's not that bright. And this is why I'm thinking the Democrats will continue to let their pride get the better of them, no matter how much harm this does, and people it kills. And make no mistake, if Obamacare isn't unwound quickly, it will kill A LOT of people. I think I posted in this thread that there was a meeting in the White House last week. A dozen Dem senators, all up for reelection next year, none were reported to be happy campers. I believe there are cracks in their armor of unity. Whether they can be exploited remains to be seen. Hell even babs is worried: “The launching of the Affordable Care Act has been more than bumpy,” Mikulski said. “I believe there’s been a crisis of confidence created in the dysfunctional nature of the website, the canceling of policies, and sticker shock from some people. We read in The Baltimore Sun this morning that 73,000 Marylanders’ policies will be canceled. So there has been fear, doubt, and a crisis of confidence.” “What I worry about is that there’s such a crisis of confidence, people won’t enroll. And the very people we need to enroll, particularly our young people, to make this whole system work, won’t happen.” www.nationaljournal.com/all-powers/obama-s-crisis-of-confidence-20131105
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Post by douger on Nov 12, 2013 8:25:39 GMT -5
Congratulations Oregon! You've enrolled exactly zero people!Keep up the good work!
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Post by middleoftheroad on Nov 12, 2013 8:45:12 GMT -5
I think I posted in this thread that there was a meeting in the White House last week. A dozen Dem senators, all up for reelection next year, none were reported to be happy campers. I believe there are cracks in their armor of unity. Whether they can be exploited remains to be seen. Hell even babs is worried: “The launching of the Affordable Care Act has been more than bumpy,” Mikulski said. “I believe there’s been a crisis of confidence created in the dysfunctional nature of the website, the canceling of policies, and sticker shock from some people. We read in The Baltimore Sun this morning that 73,000 Marylanders’ policies will be canceled. So there has been fear, doubt, and a crisis of confidence.” “What I worry about is that there’s such a crisis of confidence, people won’t enroll. And the very people we need to enroll, particularly our young people, to make this whole system work, won’t happen.” www.nationaljournal.com/all-powers/obama-s-crisis-of-confidence-20131105 Someone should tell the good Senator from MD that at a fine of $95 per year, it is cheaper to pay the fine then enroll in an insurance program none of them believe they will need.
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Post by com6063 on Nov 12, 2013 8:53:01 GMT -5
Some people are going to wait until the tax penalties outweigh any "benefits" of enrolling.
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Post by redleg on Nov 12, 2013 9:45:53 GMT -5
Here's how I see it. The website isn't going to be available by the end of the month. The man Barry's put in place to fix it is either sandbagging or is honest in that it's not going to be ready. So...they'll be at a crossroads. Live with the arrogance that got them here and press on with pride, or delay the individual mandate - which is not without its own challenges. Does Obama unilaterally wave off the mandate like he did the business mandate, or does he do the right thing and go to Congress? Should Republicans help? Here's how douger sees it playing out. If the GOP says "own it," the Dems will accuse them of wringing their hands over people's pain, particularly since they offered a delay during the shutdown. If they do help Democrats, there should be strings. All aspects of Obamacare need to be online and available on July 1st. The website, the mandates, all of the waivers...every bit of it. If it can't be, then Obamacare dies. All of it. Then hope that the insurance market isn't so screwed up that it can't recover. I think this is entirely reasonable. I think the GOP does need to cooperate, but that cooperation should come with a price. And I think you're also right to say 'either get it functional by a reasonable date (July 1 works for me), or accept the fact that it's not going to work, and kill it off.' The thing of it is, I don't see the democrats or Obama doing anything but pressing on and pretending everything is just fine. I don't. They tried to 'bail out' the Dems, and the Dems shut down the government to prevent it. The Repubs need to go on every outlet they can find, and tell people "we tried to help, they shut down the government. Now they need to implement this law, as written. After all, "it's the law of the land", "it was passed by Congress, signed by the President, it's the law". Now they will live with it. No delays, no waivers, no subsidies except as written in the original law." And then stand by it. Make the serfs realize what it really is they voted for.
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Post by redleg on Nov 12, 2013 9:48:53 GMT -5
And why is that bill not about trying to do right by the American people? Yes, I know it could take months for the insurance companies to undo their end of Obamacare, but isn't giving them the opportunity to make the effort a net benefit to the public? You could say the same exact things about obamacare!!!! Your heros had 3 years, and spent nearly a trillion dollars to screw this up. The insurance companies did it in a few months. No more chances. The Puppet and his Merry Marxists forced this on us, they don't get a do over. Let them die with their Marxist agenda.
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Post by douger on Nov 12, 2013 10:35:36 GMT -5
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Post by douger on Nov 12, 2013 10:48:02 GMT -5
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Post by douger on Nov 12, 2013 15:49:33 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 12, 2013 19:01:09 GMT -5
Again, is this bill not the first step needed to fix the problem? Maybe. But you're proceeding from the assumption that they actually want to fix the problem, or (if they do) that they can without a big red "VETO" stamp on the bill. Remember that Obama will reject any Republican solution that doesn't help move the country in the direction he wants it to go. The man's got an ego the size of Texas and can't admit he screwed up real bad. Hey EY - I think this was your post, not mine.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 12, 2013 19:04:44 GMT -5
I think this is entirely reasonable. I think the GOP does need to cooperate, but that cooperation should come with a price. And I think you're also right to say 'either get it functional by a reasonable date (July 1 works for me), or accept the fact that it's not going to work, and kill it off.' The thing of it is, I don't see the democrats or Obama doing anything but pressing on and pretending everything is just fine. I don't. They tried to 'bail out' the Dems, and the Dems shut down the government to prevent it. The Repubs need to go on every outlet they can find, and tell people "we tried to help, they shut down the government. Now they need to implement this law, as written. After all, "it's the law of the land", "it was passed by Congress, signed by the President, it's the law". Now they will live with it. No delays, no waivers, no subsidies except as written in the original law." And then stand by it. Make the serfs realize what it really is they voted for. redleg - I understand the urge to rub the voters' nose in this pile of crap and shout 'bad voters!' And yes, they do deserve having this shoved down their throats by the Democrats. But I want to get the Democrats OUT OF OFFICE. Where they desperately need to be. Punishing the voters isn't going to get us where we need to be. Besides, don't worry about it - the Democrats won't back off of this no matter how hard the GOP tries. So let the GOP try, over and over again, to try to fix all of this, or parts of this.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 12, 2013 19:33:48 GMT -5
Maybe. But you're proceeding from the assumption that they actually want to fix the problem, or (if they do) that they can without a big red "VETO" stamp on the bill. Remember that Obama will reject any Republican solution that doesn't help move the country in the direction he wants it to go. The man's got an ego the size of Texas and can't admit he screwed up real bad. Hey EY - I think this was your post, not mine. Crap. I did it again. Moderators have the ability to edit other folks posts, and this shows up as a button next to the 'Quote' button. I've clicked 'Edit' when I wanted 'Quote' twice now. Sorry about that. I can delete the post if you like, or you can.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 12, 2013 19:35:43 GMT -5
Hey EY - I think this was your post, not mine. Crap. I did it again. Moderators have the ability to edit other folks posts, and this shows up as a button next to the 'Quote' button. I've clicked 'Edit' when I wanted 'Quote' twice now. Sorry about that. I can delete the post if you like, or you can. I think all you need to do is figure out how to make the reply show up with your avatar instead of mine.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 12, 2013 19:56:24 GMT -5
Again, is this bill not the first step needed to fix the problem? Maybe. But you're proceeding from the assumption that they actually want to fix the problem, or (if they do) that they can without a big red "VETO" stamp on the bill. Remember that Obama will reject any Republican solution that doesn't help move the country in the direction he wants it to go. The man's got an ego the size of Texas and can't admit he screwed up real bad.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Nov 12, 2013 19:57:41 GMT -5
I think all you need to do is figure out how to make the reply show up with your avatar instead of mine. I had to recreate my reply and delete the original post. I can't get what you wrote back; there's no function for that. Again, I apologize.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 12, 2013 19:57:52 GMT -5
So not only is Obama about to kill a bunch of people, he's busy pimping young girls. I wonder what Joe "Rape Culture" Friday would think of this? I'm guessing he's ok with Obama pimping cute white girls.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 12, 2013 19:58:31 GMT -5
I think all you need to do is figure out how to make the reply show up with your avatar instead of mine. I had to recreate my reply and delete the original post. I can't get what you wrote back; there's no function for that. Again, I apologize. No worries - it's sorted.
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Post by Moses on Nov 12, 2013 20:43:55 GMT -5
So not only is Obama about to kill a bunch of people, he's busy pimping young girls. I wonder what Joe "Rape Culture" Friday would think of this? I'm guessing he's ok with Obama pimping cute white girls. You've lost it.
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Post by redleg on Nov 12, 2013 21:10:01 GMT -5
Again, that fact is lost on the limousine liberals who believe that the middle class should handle ALL of "the sick, the poor, the deadbeat, the druggies and drunks; god forbid that the Kennedys, the Pelosi's, the Reid's and Gores' should have to pay THEIR share! I don't know anyone who thinks like that. You guys need to make up boogymen all the time. Fear! Fear! Serfs don't think. They just do what their masters tell them to do.
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Post by redleg on Nov 12, 2013 21:13:02 GMT -5
And why is that bill not about trying to do right by the American people? Yes, I know it could take months for the insurance companies to undo their end of Obamacare, but isn't giving them the opportunity to make the effort a net benefit to the public? You could say the same exact things about obamacare!!!! No. The Dems shut down the government to keep from even having to suffer under Puppettax. They made sure that their exemptions were continued, but they wouldn't even consider delaying it for those that are stuck with it. Now that the full disaster is being exposed, NOW they want a delay, and changes. The Repubs should refuse to allow a single jot or tittle to be changed. In fact, they should insist that the law be implemented as written. Let the Dems be stood against their own wall.
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Post by redleg on Nov 12, 2013 21:15:44 GMT -5
And why is that bill not about trying to do right by the American people? Yes, I know it could take months for the insurance companies to undo their end of Obamacare, but isn't giving them the opportunity to make the effort a net benefit to the public? Because that's not how politicians think. Right around election time the Pubs often stand up a bill restricting abortion. Typically, these bills have a fatal flaw, like omitting the medical exemption, that guarantees they'll get no traction, and if they do, that they'll be struck down on Constitutional grounds. This is because the Pubs know actually trying to outlaw abortion is political poison - roughly 75% of the country doesn't agree with that stance. But they have to pretend they're doing something their core constituency, religious extremists, want done. Unless the bill *requires* companies to make such policies available it gives people nothing. And if it requires that, it undercuts Obamacare and the Resident won't sign it. So: nothing. It's politics. I don't think 75% support abortion. At least, not abortion for any reason, at any time like the Dems do. Look at what just passed in TX, with overwhelming approval. People are finally realizing that it's infanticide.
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