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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 20, 2015 16:32:00 GMT -5
Moore is like Sharpton. They have to come out of their holes and spew garbage every so often to keep them in the news. If they didn't people would forget about their worthless asses. Or Trump, Palin, The Nuge, Falwell, Rush, Redleg. hoooray for politics on the non-politics board! My opinion of Moore has to do with his lack of character, not his politics.
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Post by aponderer on Jan 20, 2015 17:25:52 GMT -5
Snipers are heroes, its always a good day when an enemy is killed. No guilt here ever. Heroes my arse! You guys use that word so casually and cheapen it every time you misuse it. All you can say about snipers is that they are (usually) paid killers, there is nothing 'heroic' in what they do, no matter who they 'snipe' for. Is that your opinion of Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong, too?
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:04:39 GMT -5
As they depict in the movie, if they are killing the enemy, protecting our soldiers I would consider them heroes. Chris Kyle had a lot of confirmed kills, I wonder how many lives he saved in doing so?? Most any military man/woman in the field of battle may be called upon to kill the enemy... that. in itself, doesn't make them or anyone else a hero... I agree with BE that we vastly overuse the word "hero"... making light of what it takes or means to be a real "hero"... basically going above and beyond... not just doing... their duty...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:10:19 GMT -5
Heroes my arse! You guys use that word so casually and cheapen it every time you misuse it. All you can say about snipers is that they are (usually) paid killers, there is nothing 'heroic' in what they do, no matter who they 'snipe' for. Is that your opinion of Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong, too? Not that it's relevant (as per usual), but who are Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong?
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Post by aponderer on Jan 20, 2015 18:13:30 GMT -5
Is that your opinion of Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong, too? Not that it's relevant (as per usual), but who are Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong? Oh (as per usual), it's quite relevant. Did you forget that Google is your friend?
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:13:33 GMT -5
I hear ya... I couldn't tell you a thing he said this morning on Fox... I was paying more attention to Tantaros... Are you not one of those I don't watch Fox people .. ? No, I'm not... I've always said I watch Fox News... CNN is kinda boring... just the plain ole news... not much fanaticism and/or hype)... one has to keep their eye on the enemy... and if they (Fox) tell it... you can bet your ass they're not telling it like it is or the whole story... you have to look it up for yourself before you believe it... "intrinsic value," you know... My wife caught me watching Fox this morning... didn't know it was back on Dish... she had heard something that we both knew wasn't true... she asked me why I had it on... I told her "Just keeping up with the enemy"...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:20:19 GMT -5
Heroes my arse! You guys use that word so casually and cheapen it every time you misuse it. All you can say about snipers is that they are (usually) paid killers, there is nothing 'heroic' in what they do, no matter who they 'snipe' for. They're trained soldiers, more trained than most, but that's what they are. If they save friendly lives they're heroes. By most accounts, that's what Kyle did. Many soldiers have specialized training... I had specialized training in two areas myself... all soldiers work together to save each other's lives... some perform extraordinarily... and go above and beyond the expected call to duty and demonstrate behavior that makes them deserving of the title "hero"... but not just all who have specialized training... All solders on the battlefield should be considered to be there to save friendly lives... it's their duty...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:22:23 GMT -5
Or Trump, Palin, The Nuge, Falwell, Rush, Redleg. hoooray for politics on the non-politics board! My opinion of Moore has to do with his lack of character, not his politics. One man's trash is another man's treasure... "character" can be viewed the same way... depending on who's looking...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:26:20 GMT -5
Not that it's relevant (as per usual), but who are Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong? Oh (as per usual), it's quite relevant. Did you forget that Google is your friend? If you have a point, make it, I'm no going to play Google games with you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:28:59 GMT -5
Or Trump, Palin, The Nuge, Falwell, Rush, Redleg. hoooray for politics on the non-politics board! My opinion of Moore has to do with his lack of character, not his politics. I think that you are judging Moore's character by his politics.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:31:41 GMT -5
Heroes my arse! You guys use that word so casually and cheapen it every time you misuse it. All you can say about snipers is that they are (usually) paid killers, there is nothing 'heroic' in what they do, no matter who they 'snipe' for. Is that your opinion of Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong, too? Are you considering these two guys heroes because of the distance from which they killed an enemy?... I would agree that such a distance is extraordinary and deserves special recognition... which no doubt both received... but that in itself doesn't make them heroes... two kills don't make one a hero... I have a very close relative... well, did... that killed 26...
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Post by aponderer on Jan 20, 2015 18:37:13 GMT -5
As they depict in the movie, if they are killing the enemy, protecting our soldiers I would consider them heroes. Chris Kyle had a lot of confirmed kills, I wonder how many lives he saved in doing so?? Most any military man/woman in the field of battle may be called upon to kill the enemy... that. in itself, doesn't make them or anyone else a hero... I agree with BE that we vastly overuse the word "hero"... making light of what it takes or means to be a real "hero"... basically going above and beyond... not just doing... their duty... Chris Kyle was a sniper, yes, but first and foremost he was a Navy SEAL and put his life on the line many times, as do most SEALs in combat (such as Marc Lee, Chris Kyle's friend and the first SEAL to be KIA in Iraq). Chris Kyle was a hero in every sense of the word. Anybody who does even a minimum of research into the life of a coalition sniper will find out that those guys usually aren't protected--surrounded by tanks, fighting vehicles, and troops--every time they're doing their duty. As a matter of fact, I am absolutely astounded that "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock survived the Vietnam war, for example.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:38:54 GMT -5
Oh (as per usual), it's quite relevant. Did you forget that Google is your friend? If you have a point, make it, I'm no going to play Google games with you. Both held records at the time for killing enemy at a great distance as a sniper... but don't most all snipers kill from a distance... that's why they're called snipers, isn't it?... Many of these guys here certainly don't consider sniper Lon Horiuchi a hero...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:39:44 GMT -5
My opinion of Moore has to do with his lack of character, not his politics. I think that you are judging Moore's character by his politics. I think you're right on target, BE... I know the feeling...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:42:30 GMT -5
Most any military man/woman in the field of battle may be called upon to kill the enemy... that. in itself, doesn't make them or anyone else a hero... I agree with BE that we vastly overuse the word "hero"... making light of what it takes or means to be a real "hero"... basically going above and beyond... not just doing... their duty... Chris Kyle was a sniper, yes, but first and foremost he was a Navy SEAL and put his life on the line many times, as do most SEALs in combat (such as Marc Lee, Chris Kyle's friend and the first SEAL to be KIA in Iraq). Chris Kyle was a hero in every sense of the word. Anybody who does even a minimum of research into the life of a coalition sniper will find out that those guys usually aren't protected--surrounded by tanks, fighting vehicles, and troops--every time they're doing their duty. As a matter of fact, I am absolutely astounded that "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock survived the Vietnam war, for example. And most, if not ALL, CHOOSE to be there... and are gung ho... which is fine... but every soldier who goes to war put's their life on the line... I lost many such friends in SEA... Just being a Navy SEAL... or any other Special Forces... doesn't make ANYONE a hero... heck, a field goal kicker who hasn't kicked a field goal all season... becomes an instant hero when he kicks a field goal for the winning points in the game at the end of the season... remember Tom Dempsey's 63-yarder to win the game against Detroit in New Orleans?... an instant hero...
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Post by aponderer on Jan 20, 2015 18:44:02 GMT -5
Is that your opinion of Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong, too? Are you considering these two guys heroes because of the distance from which they killed an enemy?... I would agree that such a distance is extraordinary and deserves special recognition... which no doubt both received... but that in itself doesn't make them heroes... two kills don't make one a hero... I have a very close relative... well, did... that killed 26... I was asking baldeagle if he had the same opinion of those two as he obviously does of other snipers. Are you two a tag team? BTW, do you know for a fact that Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong shot all their victims from the safety of long distances?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:44:23 GMT -5
If you have a point, make it, I'm no going to play Google games with you. Both held records at the time for killing enemy at a great distance as a sniper... but don't most all snipers kill from a distance... that's why they're called snipers, isn't it?... Many of these guys here certainly don't consider sniper Lon Horiuchi a hero... So they hold records for doing what they were paid for well, that makes them good at their jobs, it does not make them heroes.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:51:03 GMT -5
Are you considering these two guys heroes because of the distance from which they killed an enemy?... I would agree that such a distance is extraordinary and deserves special recognition... which no doubt both received... but that in itself doesn't make them heroes... two kills don't make one a hero... I have a very close relative... well, did... that killed 26... I was asking baldeagle if he had the same opinion of those two as he obviously does of other snipers. Are you two a tag team? BTW, do you know for a fact that Craig Harrison and Rob Furlong shot all their victims from the safety of long distances? He (BE) didn't know of them... and there is no safe places in a war... those on the other end could have had the same thing... and the same kind of man... or woman...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:52:06 GMT -5
Both held records at the time for killing enemy at a great distance as a sniper... but don't most all snipers kill from a distance... that's why they're called snipers, isn't it?... Many of these guys here certainly don't consider sniper Lon Horiuchi a hero... So they hold records for doing what they were paid for well, that makes them good at their jobs, it does not make them heroes. Exactly...
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Post by aponderer on Jan 20, 2015 18:52:16 GMT -5
Chris Kyle was a sniper, yes, but first and foremost he was a Navy SEAL and put his life on the line many times, as do most SEALs in combat (such as Marc Lee, Chris Kyle's friend and the first SEAL to be KIA in Iraq). Chris Kyle was a hero in every sense of the word. Anybody who does even a minimum of research into the life of a coalition sniper will find out that those guys usually aren't protected--surrounded by tanks, fighting vehicles, and troops--every time they're doing their duty. As a matter of fact, I am absolutely astounded that "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock survived the Vietnam war, for example. And most, if not ALL, CHOOSE to be there... and are gung ho... which is fine... but every soldier who goes to war put's their life on the line... I lost many such friends in SEA... Just being a Navy SEAL... or any other Special Forces... doesn't make ANYONE a hero... That's simply not true. It is for those who are likely to be in combat. But not all soldiers see combat in a "war." I'll wager you didn't "choose" to be in Vietnam. However, when assigned, you went and for that deserve thanks and respect, even though you weren't a hero by your own definition...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 18:54:12 GMT -5
And most, if not ALL, CHOOSE to be there... and are gung ho... which is fine... but every soldier who goes to war put's their life on the line... I lost many such friends in SEA... Just being a Navy SEAL... or any other Special Forces... doesn't make ANYONE a hero... That's simply not true. It is for those who are likely to be in combat. But not all soldiers see combat in a "war." I'll wager you didn't "choose" to be in Vietnam. However, when assigned, you went and for that deserve thanks and respect, even though you weren't a hero by your own definition... I should have said "field of battle" as I did when referencing Patton several times here... but I really think you know what I meant... Most every soldier goes where they go "on orders" although some do request certain areas... like Infantry... (which automatically meant SEA)... and are obliged... And my friend Jimmy Slaton didn't consider himself a hero either... but the government did... and awarded him the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service...
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Post by aponderer on Jan 20, 2015 19:11:51 GMT -5
That's simply not true. It is for those who are likely to be in combat. But not all soldiers see combat in a "war." I'll wager you didn't "choose" to be in Vietnam. However, when assigned, you went and for that deserve thanks and respect, even though you weren't a hero by your own definition... I should have said "field of battle" as I did when referencing Patton several times here... but I really think you know what I meant... Most every soldier goes where they go "on orders" although some do request certain areas... like Infantry... (which automatically meant SEA)... and are obliged... And my friend Jimmy Slaton didn't consider himself a hero either... but the government did... and awarded him the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service... Although your friend Jimmy Slaton didn't consider himself a hero, the facts of the matter and his Congressional Medal of Honor provide overwhelming evidence that he indeed qualified for being called a hero by a thankful country. Some heroes are modest... And FWIW Craig Harrison's skull was struck by a bullet, and he had both his arms broken while serving "in country." I'm glad he survived.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 20, 2015 19:33:57 GMT -5
I should have said "field of battle" as I did when referencing Patton several times here... but I really think you know what I meant... Most every soldier goes where they go "on orders" although some do request certain areas... like Infantry... (which automatically meant SEA)... and are obliged... And my friend Jimmy Slaton didn't consider himself a hero either... but the government did... and awarded him the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service... Although your friend Jimmy Slaton didn't consider himself a hero, the facts of the matter and his Congressional Medal of Honor provide overwhelming evidence that he indeed qualified for being called a hero by a thankful country. Some heroes are modest... And FWIW Craig Harrison's skull was struck by a bullet, and he had both his arms broken while serving "in country." I'm glad he survived. Like I said... there is no safe place in a war zone... and Jimmy was a modest man... so modest that many of us didn't even know of his heroics until after he was gone... (suicide)...
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Bartman
Still Working,,,,,,Dammit!
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Post by Bartman on Jan 20, 2015 21:08:27 GMT -5
The Sniper has been used by every military since Revoultionary times. Ask the British how they dealt with our Minutemen with their Kentucky Long Rifles. Most Redcoats still had smoothbore muskets and just couldn't reach as far accurately. Later Snipers were used by both sides in the Civil War here knocking some high ranking officers off their mounts. The Europeans really took to it in the late 1800's with their more modern bolt actions we had not developed yet. Our first modern Military bolt action rifles were Imported Krag-Jorgensens if I'm not mistaken. We didn't come up with our own Springfields till 1903. The US only started getting into the craft after WWI but remained far behind the Wehrmacht and the Soviets in WWII. We're pretty much latecomers to the game. Our guys now are some of the best trained in the world.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 20, 2015 22:30:58 GMT -5
My opinion of Moore has to do with his lack of character, not his politics. I think that you are judging Moore's character by his politics. The thing I object to is that he tells lies to get his point across, in those "faux"cumentaries he makes. He's been called out on it by left and right. That's a character problem irrelevant to his politics.
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