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Post by palealeman on Feb 16, 2018 19:43:02 GMT -5
13 Russians indicted today for trying to sabotoge our last Presidential election. Trump admits (finally) that there was Russian involvement, but refuses to denounce it. Looks like Mueller has found something. Where might this lead?
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Post by kemmer on Feb 17, 2018 1:07:33 GMT -5
We've known for a while that the Russians were trying to discredit democracy (or, maybe, the West) by manufacturing chaos. The French can attest to that, too. I'm glad the FBI dug out the methods and details. Not much we can do about it-- try those indicted in absentia, given that Putin is unlikely to extradite them.
I find it fascinating that they were behind some demonstrations-- on both sides, on the same day. I wonder if it was Russian operatives burning cars on Inauguration Day. More likely just American "useful idiots" responding to suggestions of Russians. A truly brilliant plot, no? [Consider the delicious irony of all those White Supremacists / America Firsters doing Russia's bidding.]
And really, if you want to discredit democracy... well, the election of Donald Trump certainly has many rethinking the whole concept.
I wonder if the Russians invented the slogan: "This is what Democracy looks like!" that so many rioters were shouting. Democracy: "If you don't like the outcome of the election, go burn down the business of someone who had nothing to do with it."
The only solution I can think of is to ask people not to become "useful idiots". That means, we need news sources we can trust. Right now, those sources are having financial difficulty. Perhaps, we need some means to make Facebook and Google pay for the links they provide? There's a real problem when newspapers do the work, and internet giants get the advertising revenue.
I worry that everyone will cry out for government censorship. Frankly, I trust the tech guys to dig out sources of posts more than I trust bureaucrats with law degrees. We shall see what's proposed.
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Post by Ranger John on Feb 17, 2018 8:44:50 GMT -5
13 Russians indicted today for trying to sabotoge our last Presidential election. Trump admits (finally) that there was Russian involvement, but refuses to denounce it. Looks like Mueller has found something. Where might this lead? No one, least of all Trump, has claimed the Russians didn't meddle in our election. The complaint is that there was no COLLUSION between the Trump campaign and Putin. Mueller still hasn't found any evidence of that, and my guess is if this leads anywhere it will be to Putin. Which will surprise exactly no one who has paid attention to this story. |
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Post by palealeman on Feb 17, 2018 11:24:15 GMT -5
The evidence of collusion is there, RJ. Look openly. Look at a meeting in Trump Tower attended by Trump Jr., Kushner, and Manafort. I'm waiting for those indictments to come down. Probably within the next 2 months.
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Post by Ranger John on Feb 17, 2018 11:46:37 GMT -5
The evidence of collusion is there, RJ. Look openly. Look at a meeting in Trump Tower attended by Trump Jr., Kushner, and Manafort. I'm waiting for those indictments to come down. Probably within the next 2 months. I have read about that meeting. From all accounts, nothing came of it. The Russians pulled a bait and switch, and the Trump camp sent them packing. Mueller has probably had fine details on it for over a year. Are you holding your breath yet? Maybe that's what Mueller needs. |
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Post by palealeman on Feb 17, 2018 14:00:54 GMT -5
Bait and switch? What are you drinking? Donnie Jr's emails clearly stated that the meeting was to get dirt on Hillary. The adoption issue was used later as a smokescreen.
And please go back and reread your sources. No, on second thought, find some new, reliable sources. President Trump has repeatedly denied that there was any Russian involvement in the election. He has called the whole thing a hoax and a Democratic invention. It was only after Mueller's indictment of the Russians that he started admitting that the Russians had tried to influence the election.
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Post by Ranger John on Feb 17, 2018 14:55:54 GMT -5
Bait and switch? What are you drinking? Donnie Jr's emails clearly stated that the meeting was to get dirt on Hillary. The adoption issue was used later as a smokescreen. Yeah. The Russians said they had dirt as a pretext to get Trump in a meeting about adoptions. Either they didn't have dirt, or the dirt they had wasn't worth the adoption compromise they wanted from Trump. What you're completely missing is this meeting actually refutes the accusation that Trump and the Russians worked together to hack the DNC. Or even that they worked together later. Trump has repeatedly denied that there was any Russian involvement IN HIS CAMPAIGN. That is not the same as denying they were meddling in the election. Either way, there wasn't much of anything Trump could have done to stop them meddling beyond his campaign. That will go down as another massive failure of the Obama administration. |
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Post by breakingbad on Feb 17, 2018 15:58:57 GMT -5
Seems to me that the DNC and the swamp rats in Justice and the FBI did much more to try to influence the election than these ruskies. For cryin out loud, they staged both anti-Hillary and anti-Trump rallies. This guy makes a pretty good case that Hillary and the DNC are just as guilty, using the reasoning behind the indictments. But of course, the pale man won't be able to see it through his partisan blinders. |
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Post by redleg on Feb 17, 2018 20:51:25 GMT -5
Bait and switch? What are you drinking? Donnie Jr's emails clearly stated that the meeting was to get dirt on Hillary. The adoption issue was used later as a smokescreen. And please go back and reread your sources. No, on second thought, find some new, reliable sources. President Trump has repeatedly denied that there was any Russian involvement in the election. He has called the whole thing a hoax and a Democratic invention. It was only after Mueller's indictment of the Russians that he started admitting that the Russians had tried to influence the election. So, when are you going to call for impeaching Schiff, since he did exactly the same thing, only it was Russian pranksters. He was apparently willing to pay for the "information". Trump didn't deny that there was Russian interference, just that he had nothing to do with it. It was The Felon and the DNC that were accomplices to the Russian interference, and of course, Mueller will "find" nothing of it, since he's got no one but Felon sycophants on his "team", and his mission is to get Trump, not ferret out interference. |
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Post by redleg on Feb 17, 2018 20:59:08 GMT -5
Seems to me that the DNC and the swamp rats in Justice and the FBI did much more to try to influence the election than these ruskies. For cryin out loud, they staged both anti-Hillary and anti-Trump rallies. This guy makes a pretty good case that Hillary and the DNC are just as guilty, using the reasoning behind the indictments. But of course, the pale man won't be able to see it through his partisan blinders. So far, none of the indictments that Mueller HAS been able to manufacture have anything to do with Russia "collusion", or even Trump's campaign. Flynn's indictment will probably be tossed, because the judge that was appointed has no time for prosecutors that don't bother following the law, like Weissman. Not to mention that any indictment based on the spying is tainted, and will be thrown out of court. |
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Post by redleg on Feb 17, 2018 20:59:38 GMT -5
The evidence of collusion is there, RJ. Look openly. Look at a meeting in Trump Tower attended by Trump Jr., Kushner, and Manafort. I'm waiting for those indictments to come down. Probably within the next 2 months. Yes, there is, and it's all pointing to The Felon and the DNC. |
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Post by redleg on Feb 17, 2018 21:01:08 GMT -5
13 Russians indicted today for trying to sabotoge our last Presidential election. Trump admits (finally) that there was Russian involvement, but refuses to denounce it. Looks like Mueller has found something. Where might this lead? Directly to The Felon and the DNC. And The Puppet, since it all happened after he told Putin he'd "have more flexibility after the election". Hmmmm, wonder how he knew he'd win? Could it be that Putin had promised him a win? |
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Post by kemmer on Feb 18, 2018 0:09:04 GMT -5
Listening to Rosenstein's press conference, I noted that he said there was nothing IN THIS INDICTMENT that noted any Americans. That's not the same as saying no Americans were involved, or that there are no future indictments coming.
So far, Obama's assurance that he'd have more leeway "after the election" remains far more damning than the allegations against the current administration... but we shall see.
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Post by palealeman on Feb 18, 2018 16:00:53 GMT -5
The other interesting point, Kemmer, is that Trump has done nothing yet other that claim that the indictments show that he and his campaign were not involved with the Russians. However, Congress has authorized sanctions against Russia over this involvement, and Trump has refused to implement them. Why? What's is he afraid of? What do the Russians have on him that prevents him to imposing sanctions? But perhaps that's a question for another investigation.
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Post by redleg on Feb 18, 2018 21:34:29 GMT -5
The other interesting point, Kemmer, is that Trump has done nothing yet other that claim that the indictments show that he and his campaign were not involved with the Russians. However, Congress has authorized sanctions against Russia over this involvement, and Trump has refused to implement them. Why? What's is he afraid of? What do the Russians have on him that prevents him to imposing sanctions? But perhaps that's a question for another investigation. Or, maybe imposing sanctions right now would lead to far more problems down the line. Like a treaty between Russian and China, who Waco Billy Boy gave super computers to so they could correct their missile technology? Of course, he also got millions in political donations from the Chinese and the Russians, so it wasn't a freebie. |
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Post by palealeman on Feb 20, 2018 19:02:22 GMT -5
And now another indictment. Looks like Mueller might be getting close to ending his investigation.
However, today's indictment leads to more questions. There's no doubt that the Russians hacked in and tried to influence the last election. In fact, we can probably say that the did influence the last election to some degree.
President Trump, after years of denial, has finally admitted that the Russians tried to influence the election. They attempted to subvert our democratic process and cause dissension in the country, and they obviously succeeded to some degree.
The question is, what is the President doing about this? We have been attacked -- one commentator I heard called this the worst attack since 9/11. But the President has taken no action. Why is not trying to protect our nationsl interests? Our national security? Is he incapable of doing the job for which he was elected?
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Post by Ranger John on Feb 20, 2018 20:24:44 GMT -5
The other interesting point, Kemmer, is that Trump has done nothing yet other that claim that the indictments show that he and his campaign were not involved with the Russians. However, Congress has authorized sanctions against Russia over this involvement, and Trump has refused to implement them. Why? What's is he afraid of? What do the Russians have on him that prevents him to imposing sanctions? But perhaps that's a question for another investigation. Or, maybe imposing sanctions right now would lead to far more problems down the line. Like a treaty between Russian and China, who Waco Billy Boy gave super computers to so they could correct their missile technology? Of course, he also got millions in political donations from the Chinese and the Russians, so it wasn't a freebie. It is also curious that the political left, which has spent the last 18 months “resisting” everything that Trump has tried to do, out of only pure, blind hatred of Trump, is now angry because of something he hasn’t done. |
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Post by redleg on Feb 21, 2018 9:55:26 GMT -5
And now another indictment. Looks like Mueller might be getting close to ending his investigation. However, today's indictment leads to more questions. There's no doubt that the Russians hacked in and tried to influence the last election. In fact, we can probably say that the did influence the last election to some degree. President Trump, after years of denial, has finally admitted that the Russians tried to influence the election. They attempted to subvert our democratic process and cause dissension in the country, and they obviously succeeded to some degree. The question is, what is the President doing about this? We have been attacked -- one commentator I heard called this the worst attack since 9/11. But the President has taken no action. Why is not trying to protect our nationsl interests? Our national security? Is he incapable of doing the job for which he was elected? Yes, there is doubt. Since the ones leading this "investigation" are the same ones that scammed the American people in the "investigation" of The Felon, since the DNC refused to allow the FBI to even see the server that they allege was hacked, and since the Party of the KKK has been in bed with the Russians since FDR, yes, there absolutely is doubt. The most probable events were that Seth Rich gave the emails to Wikileaks, and was murdered by the Party of the KKK so he couldn't a) give any more and b) couldn't spill the beans that the primaries were rigged for The Felon over The Idiot. He never denied it. He simply denied he or his campaign had anything to do with it. We haven't been "attacked", any more than we have "attacked" other countries during their elections. Egypt, Israel, and France all come immediately to mind, as in hundreds of thousands of tax dollars used to try to defeat Netanyahu. I notice you aren't concerned about what The Puppet was doing about it, since it all happened under his watch. After 8 years, no less. So, Trump is supposed to fix everything The Puppet destroyed, in 1 year, when The Puppet supported Russian interference for 8. Got it. |
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Post by redleg on Feb 21, 2018 9:58:00 GMT -5
The other interesting point, Kemmer, is that Trump has done nothing yet other that claim that the indictments show that he and his campaign were not involved with the Russians. However, Congress has authorized sanctions against Russia over this involvement, and Trump has refused to implement them. Why? What's is he afraid of? What do the Russians have on him that prevents him to imposing sanctions? But perhaps that's a question for another investigation. The real question is, if Mueller is really interested in investigating Russian interference, or "collusion", why isn't he investigating The Felon, The Felon's campaign, and the DNC? So far, every bit of evidence he has points right back to all of them, and The Puppet. That simply reinforces the notion that this is a political witch hunt, who's purpose is to damage Trump, not to find out what happened and punish the guilty. Just like The Felon's "investigation" was to clear her to run for President, not to get to the bottom of her treason. |
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Post by palealeman on Feb 21, 2018 9:58:56 GMT -5
Or, maybe imposing sanctions right now would lead to far more problems down the line. Like a treaty between Russian and China, who Waco Billy Boy gave super computers to so they could correct their missile technology? Of course, he also got millions in political donations from the Chinese and the Russians, so it wasn't a freebie. It is also curious that the political left, which has spent the last 18 months “resisting” everything that Trump has tried to do, out of only pure, blind hatred of Trump, is now angry because of something he hasn’t done. It's funny, RJ, that you talk about "blind hatred," when Republicans and their unthinking partisans spent 8 years opposing anything President Obama proposed just because he proposed it. Then it was ok to have blind hatred, now it's not? Can you be more hypocritical? |
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Post by redleg on Feb 21, 2018 10:06:22 GMT -5
It is also curious that the political left, which has spent the last 18 months “resisting” everything that Trump has tried to do, out of only pure, blind hatred of Trump, is now angry because of something he hasn’t done. It's funny, RJ, that you talk about "blind hatred," when Republicans and their unthinking partisans spent 8 years opposing anything President Obama proposed just because he proposed it. Then it was ok to have blind hatred, now it's not? Can you be more hypocritical? Really? So, because they opposed his illegal usurpation of the health care system, they are "haters"? Because they opposed him giving hundreds of billions of dollars to Iran, and lying about it, they are "racists"? Because they opposed his destruction of the entire energy grid, to further his Communist agenda, they are "blindly hating"? Really? |
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Post by Ranger John on Feb 21, 2018 11:42:17 GMT -5
It is also curious that the political left, which has spent the last 18 months “resisting” everything that Trump has tried to do, out of only pure, blind hatred of Trump, is now angry because of something he hasn’t done. It's funny, RJ, that you talk about "blind hatred," when Republicans and their unthinking partisans spent 8 years opposing anything President Obama proposed just because he proposed it. Then it was ok to have blind hatred, now it's not? Can you be more hypocritical? It is doubly curious as the Russian election meddling took place on Obama's watch. This must be what Obama was referring too when he told Medvedev that he would have more flexibility to work with Putin after the election. The GOP didn't oppose Obama because he was Obama. We opposed Obama because the stuff he tried to do was obviously destructive. The opposition to Trump is strictly personal. We see this in everything the left does. To put things simply: the GOP opposed Obamacare. The Democrats just resist Trump. To the point where Trump offered amnesty for the dreamers and the resistance clowns shut down the government in opposition. |
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Post by palealeman on Feb 21, 2018 12:03:48 GMT -5
More of your unthinking partisan reality, RJ. The GOP met on election night in 2008 to start plotting how to obstruct Obama's presidency. The votes hadn't even been counted and obstruction was being planned. But you conveniently ignore the truth. More of your continued unthinking partisanship. But what else is new?
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Post by Ranger John on Feb 21, 2018 12:15:58 GMT -5
More of your unthinking partisan reality, RJ. The GOP met on election night in 2008 to start plotting how to obstruct Obama's presidency. The votes hadn't even been counted and obstruction was being planned. But you conveniently ignore the truth. More of your continued unthinking partisanship. But what else is new? Where Obama wanted to do things that the GOP believed detrimental to the country, of course they opposed him. Again, for the GOP, opposition to Obama policies was about the policies. Democrats, on the other hand, DGAF about policies. They oppose Trump because he is Trump. In the mean time, Trump has done more to oppose Putin in his first year than Obama did for his entire presidency. Granted, all Trump needed to do was stop fellatiating Putin to accomplish that. But he has taken it a couple of steps further by selling arms to Ukraine and Poland. |
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Post by palealeman on Feb 21, 2018 12:42:45 GMT -5
No, RJ. This is more of your continued unthinking partisanship.
The GOP opposed Obama -- starting on election night before the votes were even counted -- because he was a Democrat. Period. They spent 8 years in Congress opposing anything and everything Obama even thought about proposing. If he would have proposed unlimited access to machine guns, they would have opposed it. It was opposition to the man, regardless of his policies. Sorry you can't see that . . . or just refuse to see it.
And Trump opposes Putin? Again, what world are you living in? If he opposed Putin, he'd be imposing the sanctions authorized by Congress. I asked earlier, I wonder what Putin and the Russians have on him that he refuses to act against them?
Hope you can return to the real work quickly. Hope you can learn to think critically some day. But I doubt that will ever happen.
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