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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 8:30:56 GMT -5
And I believe that you are an unmitigated supporter of Hamas and take pleasure in seeing the people of Israel attacked. There. We have the insults out of the way for the morning. I believe much of the problem in the ME today emerges because Great Britain underestimated the urgency of Herzl's Zionist movement and in their effort to grow the Empire into the ME as part of WWI did too little to bring the Arab states into the post-Balfour Declaration period. Because the Brits couldn't persuade the Arab tribes and states to participate in the mutual development of an Israeli state and a Palestinian state (as opposed to the geographic concept known as Palestine), the die was cast for where we are today. What are your thoughts on that opinion? It will begin with, You sir .... BE sounds like a Civil War General. Next he will challenge you to a dual because you dirtied his honor ...... Have you viewed the video, do you have an opinion on the goings on in the ME today, preferably sans the snark?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 8:45:10 GMT -5
Epic fail! I have already stated elsewhere in this thread that I neither agree with or condone the actions of Hamas, and your charge that I take pleasure in seeing the people of Israel attacked is a baseless lie, it is an attribution of a false position to me. You aught to be ashamed of yourself stooping to such a low level. Again you pose questions rather than address uncomfortable posts. I have no intention of answering your questions until you address my posts. I will not be sacked into your hasbara games. I can't say I am surprised that you do not want to have a discussion, but I am disappointed. I've got client meetings most of the day, but will try to get back to this late this afternoon. Perhaps you will have changed your mind by then. Have a good day, BE. It is you that doesn't want to have the discussion, not I. You refuse to watch the video, you have placed false attributions about me. You won't address any of my points but try to deflect from them by asking non sequitur questions of your own which are not dealing with what is happening today, yet you have the audacity to say that I do not want to have a discussion. You only want to obfuscate the thread away from its awkward (for you) direction. These are all the actions of a hasbara shill.
Get back to me if you want to have an honest discussion on the points that I have raised, not any further deflectory claptrap of your own.
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Post by stevez51 on Jul 22, 2014 8:52:55 GMT -5
It will begin with, You sir .... BE sounds like a Civil War General. Next he will challenge you to a dual because you dirtied his honor ...... Have you viewed the video, do you have an opinion on the goings on in the ME today, preferably sans the snark? General Baldeagle ..CSA ....
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Post by aponderer on Jul 22, 2014 8:53:18 GMT -5
You are an anti-Semite and anti-Israel BE, but that really isn't the point of the conversation. You are a bigoted ignoramus to label me an anti-Semite just because I dare criticize Israel. You are full of huff and puff, and endless deflectory and obfuscational questions in your hasbara like methods. You claim you will discuss the issue and yet you won't view the video, who are you trying to kid? I believe that you are being intellectually dishonest.You know that old saying about "fool me once..." Perhaps middleoftheroad refuses to be suckered again. On another of your threads, you challenged middleoftheroad to read Noam Chomsky's claptrap of years ago and demanded posters discuss Chomsky's opinions before you discussed other points in the discussion. Let me remind you that middleoftheroad did address your challenge and posted comments relative to Chomsky's opinions. Let me also remind you that you then ducked out of that discussion with the lame excuse of "Unfortunately, I have other chores to attend to and duties to perform, such are the demands placed upon a retired old age pensioner..." I think that is being intellectually dishonest.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 8:54:32 GMT -5
Have you viewed the video, do you have an opinion on the goings on in the ME today, preferably sans the snark? General Baldeagle ..CSA .... So you have no opinion, merely snark.
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Post by stevez51 on Jul 22, 2014 9:00:59 GMT -5
General Baldeagle ..CSA .... So you have no opinion, merely snark. Sorry, your posting sound like a Confederate General who's been insulted. No reason is going to change your mind. Why post an opinion when the General will respond.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 9:08:04 GMT -5
You are a bigoted ignoramus to label me an anti-Semite just because I dare criticize Israel. You are full of huff and puff, and endless deflectory and obfuscational questions in your hasbara like methods. You claim you will discuss the issue and yet you won't view the video, who are you trying to kid? I believe that you are being intellectually dishonest.You know that old saying about "fool me once..." Perhaps middleoftheroad refuses to be suckered again. On another of your threads, you challenged middleoftheroad to read Noam Chomsky's claptrap of years ago and demanded posters discuss Chomsky's opinions before you discussed other points in the discussion. Let me remind you that middleoftheroad did address your challenge and posted comments relative to Chomsky's opinions. Let me also remind you that you then ducked out of that discussion with the lame excuse of "Unfortunately, I have other chores to attend to and duties to perform, such are the demands placed upon a retired old age pensioner..." I think that is being intellectually dishonest. You are being more than intellectually dishonest, you are out and out plain lying, presumably why you chose not to link to the post. My last post in that thread was:
"I really did intend to reply to your post as I said. Since then, and having seen how the thread has degenerated, and quite frankly much of what I've read here sickens me to the core, I really no longer wish to contribute to it."
You were one of those that dragged the thread down.
Try to be a little more honest in future.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 9:09:42 GMT -5
So you have no opinion, merely snark. Sorry, your posting sound like a Confederate General who's been insulted. No reason is going to change your mind. Why post an opinion when the General will respond. So you have absolutely nothing but snark.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 22, 2014 9:43:10 GMT -5
I wonder who said this? Pretty honest actually.
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Post by aponderer on Jul 22, 2014 9:45:56 GMT -5
You know that old saying about "fool me once..." Perhaps middleoftheroad refuses to be suckered again. On another of your threads, you challenged middleoftheroad to read Noam Chomsky's claptrap of years ago and demanded posters discuss Chomsky's opinions before you discussed other points in the discussion. Let me remind you that middleoftheroad did address your challenge and posted comments relative to Chomsky's opinions. Let me also remind you that you then ducked out of that discussion with the lame excuse of "Unfortunately, I have other chores to attend to and duties to perform, such are the demands placed upon a retired old age pensioner..." I think that is being intellectually dishonest. You are being more than intellectually dishonest, you are out and out plain lying, presumably why you chose not to link to the post. My last post in that thread was:
"I really did intend to reply to your post as I said. Since then, and having seen how the thread has degenerated, and quite frankly much of what I've read here sickens me to the core, I really no longer wish to contribute to it."
You were one of those that dragged the thread down.
Try to be a little more honest in future.
Thank you for your honesty in admitting you ducked out (with another one of your lame excuses). There's an old saying "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
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Post by stevez51 on Jul 22, 2014 9:59:25 GMT -5
You are being more than intellectually dishonest, you are out and out plain lying, presumably why you chose not to link to the post. My last post in that thread was:
"I really did intend to reply to your post as I said. Since then, and having seen how the thread has degenerated, and quite frankly much of what I've read here sickens me to the core, I really no longer wish to contribute to it."
You were one of those that dragged the thread down.
Try to be a little more honest in future.
Thank you for your honesty in admitting you ducked out (with another one of your lame excuses). There's an old saying "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." You need to quote something familiar .. We will never, never, surrender .....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 10:00:14 GMT -5
You are being more than intellectually dishonest, you are out and out plain lying, presumably why you chose not to link to the post. My last post in that thread was:
"I really did intend to reply to your post as I said. Since then, and having seen how the thread has degenerated, and quite frankly much of what I've read here sickens me to the core, I really no longer wish to contribute to it."
You were one of those that dragged the thread down.
Try to be a little more honest in future.
Thank you for your honesty in admitting you ducked out (with another one of your lame excuses). There's an old saying "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." Thank you for admitting that you did lie with your selective quoting. The thread is still there, people can make their own minds up. As for you and your "old sayings", go boil your head.
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Post by aponderer on Jul 22, 2014 10:26:17 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 10:37:59 GMT -5
I will post the link to the whole thread, not just selective posts, you have already shown that you can't be trusted when selectively quoting. Link to complete thread.
I will not post instructions how to read it.
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Post by Moses on Jul 22, 2014 10:46:31 GMT -5
I will post the link to the whole thread, not just selective posts, you have already shown that you can't be trusted when selectively quoting. Link to complete thread.
I will not post instructions how to read it. You realize you're posting on sunspot lives on, correct?
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Post by Moses on Jul 22, 2014 10:47:22 GMT -5
Sorry, your posting sound like a Confederate General who's been insulted. No reason is going to change your mind. Why post an opinion when the General will respond. So you have absolutely nothing but snark. No, I only do that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 10:51:44 GMT -5
Interesting that post 69431 has now been deleted. Nope! It's still there, get your put er fixed.
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Jul 22, 2014 11:03:12 GMT -5
Interesting that post 69431 has now been deleted. Nope! It's still there, get your put er fixed.You are correct, I tried it again and is still there. I retract my previous post and will delete it.
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Post by magnaestback on Jul 22, 2014 12:26:16 GMT -5
Have you viewed the video, do you have an opinion on the goings on in the ME today, preferably sans the snark? General Baldeagle ..CSA .... OMG, they have his balls in a jar at Gettysburg! I know, I saw them!
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Post by vosa on Jul 22, 2014 13:49:04 GMT -5
You know that old saying about "fool me once..." Perhaps middleoftheroad refuses to be suckered again. On another of your threads, you challenged middleoftheroad to read Noam Chomsky's claptrap of years ago and demanded posters discuss Chomsky's opinions before you discussed other points in the discussion. Let me remind you that middleoftheroad did address your challenge and posted comments relative to Chomsky's opinions. Let me also remind you that you then ducked out of that discussion with the lame excuse of "Unfortunately, I have other chores to attend to and duties to perform, such are the demands placed upon a retired old age pensioner..." I think that is being intellectually dishonest. You are being more than intellectually dishonest, you are out and out plain lying, presumably why you chose not to link to the post. My last post in that thread was:
"I really did intend to reply to your post as I said. Since then, and having seen how the thread has degenerated, and quite frankly much of what I've read here sickens me to the core, I really no longer wish to contribute to it."
You were one of those that dragged the thread down.
Try to be a little more honest in future.
I think I have found the source of his "lie". Unfortunately, I have other chores to attend to and duties to perform, such are the demands placed upon a retired old age pensioner, so if you'll forgive me, I'll put you to the bottom of my 'Things to do today' list and get back to you later.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2014 5:38:58 GMT -5
You are being more than intellectually dishonest, you are out and out plain lying, presumably why you chose not to link to the post. My last post in that thread was:
"I really did intend to reply to your post as I said. Since then, and having seen how the thread has degenerated, and quite frankly much of what I've read here sickens me to the core, I really no longer wish to contribute to it."
You were one of those that dragged the thread down.
Try to be a little more honest in future.
I think I have found the source of his "lie". Unfortunately, I have other chores to attend to and duties to perform, such are the demands placed upon a retired old age pensioner, so if you'll forgive me, I'll put you to the bottom of my 'Things to do today' list and get back to you later. Already dealt with old son, I responded to the post that selectively used that remark, as you are doing now with
"You are being more than intellectually dishonest, you are out and out plain lying, presumably why you chose not to link to the post. My last post in that thread was:
"I really did intend to reply to your post as I said. Since then, and having seen how the thread has degenerated, and quite frankly much of what I've read here sickens me to the core, I really no longer wish to contribute to it."
You were one of those that dragged the thread down."
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Post by aponderer on Jul 23, 2014 8:09:19 GMT -5
There will never be peace in Gaza until its people realize that Hamas is not their friend. Should Hamas disband and give control back to the Palestinian Authority, there can be peace. However, I don't see that happening because the main objective of Hamas (and other Muslim entities) is to drive Israel into the sea, and that's not going to happen, either. That mindset, combined with the "brainwashing" of Gaza youth that all Israelis need to be killed, further dims the prospect for peace in the area. Hamas actually instigates reprisals by Israel in the hopes of gaining world opinion. For example, using human shields around its placements of arms and armaments actually invites casualties. Political cartoonist Randy Bish hit the nail squarely on the head with this "editorial."
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Post by middleoftheroad on Jul 23, 2014 8:43:31 GMT -5
aponderer, I am as strong a supporter of Israel as anyone on the forum and agree that Hamas has to go if there is to be any chance for peace in Gaza. I have two points to make however.
While the editorial is accurate in its portrayal of Hamas as using human shields, Israel is not without innocent blood on its hands. As an example, local hospitals have been hit by Israeli munitions on at least two occasions. While I believe the target in each case was a weapon system, targets within a measured area of such places must be bypassed, even if it later requires infantry assault.
I would also say that Israel is guilty of some of the same policy mistakes we made in Iraq and Afghanistan. A plan of “we’re going to stay until all the tunnels have been destroyed” is not a measureable, quantifiable plan and inevitably leads to delay and poor mission accomplishment. Along that line, to argue that Israel is not, in some cases, guilty of using a hammer instead of a fly swatter is a poor argument to have to make.
More than the end of Hamas must occur however. I believe the linchpin in the ME is Egypt and their willingness to shut down the pipeline of munitions into Gaza. Unless Egypt is willing to shut down the pipeline into Gaza, Israel will always have a knife at their back. If Egypt does so, and Israel can eventually focus on their eastern front with Jordan and Syria, the life of the people of Gaza could markedly improve.
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Post by stevez51 on Jul 23, 2014 8:53:41 GMT -5
Infantry assault would cost more lives and Hamas would still place weapons in those areas. Egypt is trying to broker a peace deal while still sending weapons to Hamas ? Sounds like Egypt is the problem .
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Post by aponderer on Jul 23, 2014 9:00:44 GMT -5
aponderer, I am as strong a supporter of Israel as anyone on the forum and agree that Hamas has to go if there is to be any chance for peace in Gaza. I have two points to make however. While the editorial is accurate in its portrayal of Hamas as using human shields, Israel is not without innocent blood on its hands. As an example, local hospitals have been hit by Israeli munitions on at least two occasions. While I believe the target in each case was a weapon system, targets within a measured area of such places must be bypassed, even if it later requires infantry assault. I would also say that Israel is guilty of some of the same policy mistakes we made in Iraq and Afghanistan. A plan of “we’re going to stay until all the tunnels have been destroyed” is not a measureable, quantifiable plan and inevitably leads to delay and poor mission accomplishment. Along that line, to argue that Israel is not, in some cases, guilty of using a hammer instead of a fly swatter is a poor argument to have to make. More than the end of Hamas must occur however. I believe the linchpin in the ME is Egypt and their willingness to shut down the pipeline of munitions into Gaza. Unless Egypt is willing to shut down the pipeline into Gaza, Israel will always have a knife at their back. If Egypt does so, and Israel can eventually focus on their eastern front with Jordan and Syria, the life of the people of Gaza could markedly improve. Of course there are extreme events on both sides of the conflict. Recently rockets from Gaza hit a kindergarten structure in Israel. Fortunately that structure was not occupied. Do you seriously think that no one was there was because Hamas warned Israel of the intended target? Or that somehow Hamas knew the structure was unoccupied and it was just a show of defiance? I don't think so. If that rocket had killed children, I suspect there would've been dancing in the streets in Gaza. Was there any jubilation in Israel when the news that a hospital was struck in Gaza? I'll wager, though, that Israel gave notice to Gaza that the hospital was a target and everyone should evacuate. We bombed the crap out of Germany and Japan to end the conflict. The Israelis have the firepower to do the same to Gaza, but have shown great restraint IMHO. The question is, how can Hamas be neutered?
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