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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 7:00:41 GMT -5
I question your knowledge of history if you really believe this started with Reagan. I'm not sure "question" is the right term. Perhaps "laugh at" suits better. You were still in diapers when I started "living" this history... You weren't even a teenager when Reagan was shot... I was only a short walk away...
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 7:03:40 GMT -5
Exactly, and the organization behind them as well Then do you lay blame "Christian Identity" and "Christians" for what Eric Rudolph did?...
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 24, 2014 7:07:01 GMT -5
No, It's Mohammed's fault. Jihad, and converting the infidels by force is still a large part of his faith to a lot of people. I agree to an extent... but most of that occurred in the East, not the West... (been doing it for hundreds of years)... until Reagan provoked them and gave them cause to do it here... just a generation ago... Look, we all know about your bizarre, seething hatred for Reagan, but he didn't provoke them any more than any of his predecessors. We've been sending our military over there - provoking them - since President Jefferson decided to take on the AlQaida of his day. Back then they were called the Barbary Pirates. But they were just another Muslim Terrorist organization. This is, and always has been, a problem that is inherent in Islam. It has nothing to do with us, except that we don't tolerate their inherently violent, expansionist nature. The biggest problem over the last 40 years has been Presidents Carter and Obama for showing them weakness.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 24, 2014 7:10:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure "question" is the right term. Perhaps "laugh at" suits better. You were still in diapers when I started "living" this history... You weren't even a teenager when Reagan was shot... I was only a short walk away... there are only two possible explanations for this: you're either suffering from dimensia, in which case, I'm terribly sorry. Or you're lying about your age. Your understanding of history and these events resembles that of a bunch of college students after a few weeks of propaganda from a radical left history professor. Either way though, your understanding of this is so partisan, it's hillarious.
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 7:14:20 GMT -5
I agree to an extent... but most of that occurred in the East, not the West... (been doing it for hundreds of years)... until Reagan provoked them and gave them cause to do it here... just a generation ago... Look, we all know about your bizarre, seething hatred for Reagan, but he didn't provoke them any more than any of his predecessors. We've been sending our military over there - provoking them - since President Jefferson decided to take on the AlQaida of his day. Back then they were called the Barbary Pirates. But they were just another Muslim Terrorist organization. This is, and always has been, a problem that is inherent in Islam. It has nothing to do with us, except that we don't tolerate their inherently violent, expansionist nature. The biggest problem over the last 40 years has been Presidents Carter and Obama for showing them weakness. Until Reagan, it was kinda like Vegas... if it happened over there... it stayed over there... but the warmonger changed that during his 8-year reign of arrogance and provocation... you can color it any way you want... you just can't change the real history... many of us lived it... and not like you... just read about it...
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 7:18:56 GMT -5
You were still in diapers when I started "living" this history... You weren't even a teenager when Reagan was shot... I was only a short walk away... there are only two possible explanations for this: you're either suffering from dimensia, in which case, I'm terribly sorry. Or you're lying about your age. Your understanding of history and these events resembles that of a bunch of college students after a few weeks of propaganda from a radical left history professor. Either way though, your understanding of this is so partisan, it's hillarious. What has my age got to do with it?... I do know what your age has to do with your not knowing about it... you were a mere kid at the time... and there's as many pro books about Reagan as there are con books about him... living and being politically active in that era leads one to the better, more accurate, ones... and I was politically active in the middle 70's when you were still in diapers... get over it...
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Post by rentedmule on Oct 24, 2014 7:19:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure "question" is the right term. Perhaps "laugh at" suits better. You were still in diapers when I started "living" this history... You weren't even a teenager when Reagan was shot... I was only a short walk away... Well that leaves me out of any discussions regarding the Battle of Hastings. But could I one day *please* talk about the race riot at LBJ (the military stockade at Long Binh)? I'm betting you did NOT own property there?
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Post by middleoftheroad on Oct 24, 2014 7:19:57 GMT -5
I question your knowledge of history if you really believe this started with Reagan. You can question whatever you want... but I have been very (politically) active since the middle 70's and didn't just read about it... I watched it happen every day... And I didn't say Reagan started the hate in the East... but he certainly gave them cause to take aim on the West... Please. I was in the Nimitz Battle Group, just outside the Gulf of Sidra watching this happen. I studied this during my tour at the War College. This was a freedom of the seas exercise and nothing more. It sounds, in part, that you're relying on the article Tommy Sanders published in Air & Space and nonsense that derived from that publication. Even Commander Sanders advised that he never entered internationally recognized Libyan airspace. He and his aircraft had every right to be where they were and to fly any pattern they chose to fly. Libya chose to launch a couple of old Floggers (maybe Flitters) as I remember. These Flogger jocks were then stupid enough to take the first shot, against a pair of F-14s, into international air space. Such an action is an act of war in any reasonable definition. Now, if you are referring to the 1986 attacks on Libya, after the bombings of the Berlin night club, you still would have a long hard row to hoe to make a point that Reagan is responsible. Libya was shown to have been the lead group involved in the Berlin bombings, in which 150 were injured Two of the dead were US soldiers, as were a bunch of the wounded. The subsequent attacks on Libya were appropriate and correct. Reagan did a lot of things wrong. The Cold War "victory" was very nearly pyrrhic in that we almost spent ourselves into oblivion (hard to believe we were worried about the national debt then, compared to now, but that's a different thread). The Gulf of Sidra was not one of those wrong events and it was no more responsible for Middle East feelings toward the West then was the cup of coffee you had for breakfast this morning. I don't know if you have read Clash of Civilizations by Huntington, but I am more and more convinced that this man hit it right on the button 20 years ago. If you have not read the book, I encourage you to do so (hint; you will need both coffee and no-doz, but it is worth it).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 8:03:00 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 24, 2014 8:23:32 GMT -5
Look, we all know about your bizarre, seething hatred for Reagan, but he didn't provoke them any more than any of his predecessors. We've been sending our military over there - provoking them - since President Jefferson decided to take on the AlQaida of his day. Back then they were called the Barbary Pirates. But they were just another Muslim Terrorist organization. This is, and always has been, a problem that is inherent in Islam. It has nothing to do with us, except that we don't tolerate their inherently violent, expansionist nature. The biggest problem over the last 40 years has been Presidents Carter and Obama for showing them weakness. Until Reagan, it was kinda like Vegas... if it happened over there... it stayed over there... but the warmonger changed that during his 8-year reign of arrogance and provocation... you can color it any way you want... you just can't change the real history... many of us lived it... and not like you... just read about it... But it didn't stay over there... even right before Reagan. The Iranian Hostage Crisis might have taken place in Tehran, but the Embassy is still considered US soil. What did Reagan do to bring that on? Back to the birth of the US, President Adams attempted to buy off the Barbary Pirates. That didn't work either, and it left Jefferson to send the Marines onto the Shores of Tripoli. This has been explained to you repeatedly, by several of us, yet you just don't care. Being the old dog that can't be taught isn't a good thing, aboutwell... it ought to embarrass you. I don't know why you don't know real history. I have to assume you either didn't live it the way you say, you weren't paying attention when it was happening to you, or you've forgotten it.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 24, 2014 8:28:31 GMT -5
there are only two possible explanations for this: you're either suffering from dimensia, in which case, I'm terribly sorry. Or you're lying about your age. Your understanding of history and these events resembles that of a bunch of college students after a few weeks of propaganda from a radical left history professor. Either way though, your understanding of this is so partisan, it's hillarious. What has my age got to do with it?... I do know what your asge has to do with your not knowing about it... you were a mere jid at the time... and there's as many pro books about Reagan as there are con books about him... living and being politically active in that era leads one to the better, more accurate, ones... and I was politically active in the middle 70's when you were still in diapers... get over it... If I was a jid, and your advanced age isn't the reason you don't know these things, why are you so astonishingly ignorant of history? Including the history you say you lived?
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 8:40:14 GMT -5
You were still in diapers when I started "living" this history... You weren't even a teenager when Reagan was shot... I was only a short walk away... Well that leaves me out of any discussions regarding the Battle of Hastings. But could I one day *please* talk about the race riot at LBJ (the military stockade at Long Binh)? I'm betting you did NOT own property there? Ranger John's "laugh" comment deserved such a factual response... And no, I don't own any Vietnam property...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 8:48:02 GMT -5
I agree to an extent... but most of that occurred in the East, not the West... (been doing it for hundreds of years)... until Reagan provoked them and gave them cause to do it here... just a generation ago... Look, we all know about your bizarre, seething hatred for Reagan, but he didn't provoke them any more than any of his predecessors. We've been sending our military over there - provoking them - since President Jefferson decided to take on the AlQaida of his day. Back then they were called the Barbary Pirates. But they were just another Muslim Terrorist organization. This is, and always has been, a problem that is inherent in Islam. It has nothing to do with us, except that we don't tolerate their inherently violent, expansionist nature. The biggest problem over the last 40 years has been Presidents Carter and Obama for showing them weakness. I guess that Regan's firing of the PATCO air controllers would be a sore subject to bring up just now...
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 8:50:36 GMT -5
You can question whatever you want... but I have been very (politically) active since the middle 70's and didn't just read about it... I watched it happen every day... And I didn't say Reagan started the hate in the East... but he certainly gave them cause to take aim on the West... Please. I was in the Nimitz Battle Group, just outside the Gulf of Sidra watching this happen. I studied this during my tour at the War College. This was a freedom of the seas exercise and nothing more. It sounds, in part, that you're relying on the article Tommy Sanders published in Air & Space and nonsense that derived from that publication. Even Commander Sanders advised that he never entered internationally recognized Libyan airspace. He and his aircraft had every right to be where they were and to fly any pattern they chose to fly. Libya chose to launch a couple of old Floggers (maybe Flitters) as I remember. These Flogger jocks were then stupid enough to take the first shot, against a pair of F-14s, into international air space. Such an action is an act of war in any reasonable definition. Now, if you are referring to the 1986 attacks on Libya, after the bombings of the Berlin night club, you still would have a long hard row to hoe to make a point that Reagan is responsible. Libya was shown to have been the lead group involved in the Berlin bombings, in which 150 were injured Two of the dead were US soldiers, as were a bunch of the wounded. The subsequent attacks on Libya were appropriate and correct. Reagan did a lot of things wrong. The Cold War "victory" was very nearly pyrrhic in that we almost spent ourselves into oblivion (hard to believe we were worried about the national debt then, compared to now, but that's a different thread). The Gulf of Sidra was not one of those wrong events and it was no more responsible for Middle East feelings toward the West then was the cup of coffee you had for breakfast this morning. I don't know if you have read Clash of Civilizations by Huntington, but I am more and more convinced that this man hit it right on the button 20 years ago. If you have not read the book, I encourage you to do so (hint; you will need both coffee and no-doz, but it is worth it). I don't question anything you said here... and I was talking about '83, not '86... it was indeed a "provocation" by Reagan any way you look at it... (that's just who the guy was)... with all that water out there... and he just had to go there (knowing it would piss Gaddafi off)... to piss 'em off... and we're still paying for it today... so is Canada... My brother got out of the Marines after 12 years because of Reagan...
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 8:55:11 GMT -5
Until Reagan, it was kinda like Vegas... if it happened over there... it stayed over there... but the warmonger changed that during his 8-year reign of arrogance and provocation... you can color it any way you want... you just can't change the real history... many of us lived it... and not like you... just read about it... But it didn't stay over there... even right before Reagan. The Iranian Hostage Crisis might have taken place in Tehran, but the Embassy is still considered US soil. What did Reagan do to bring that on? Back to the birth of the US, President Adams attempted to buy off the Barbary Pirates. That didn't work either, and it left Jefferson to send the Marines onto the Shores of Tripoli. This has been explained to you repeatedly, by several of us, yet you just don't care. Being the old dog that can't be taught isn't a good thing, aboutwell... it ought to embarrass you. I don't know why you don't know real history. I have to assume you either didn't live it the way you say, you weren't paying attention when it was happening to you, or you've forgotten it. It may be "considered" American soil... but it is over there, not over here... a stupid argument by you... And you haven't explained a damn thing to me...
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Oct 24, 2014 8:58:28 GMT -5
linkWell now we have our own Islamic Terrorist attack against the police in NYC. I wonder how our resident apologists will attempt to cat cover up the mess.
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 9:00:27 GMT -5
What has my age got to do with it?... I do know what your asge has to do with your not knowing about it... you were a mere jid at the time... and there's as many pro books about Reagan as there are con books about him... living and being politically active in that era leads one to the better, more accurate, ones... and I was politically active in the middle 70's when you were still in diapers... get over it... If I was a jid, and your advanced age isn't the reason you don't know these things, why are you so astonishingly ignorant of history? Including the history you say you lived? Sorry for those typos... I was in a hurry to take my grands to school... I corrected it... I do like to be right... And two things I do know for a fact about history... I was in Washington in the early 70's... and you were still pissing in your pants at the time...
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 9:02:34 GMT -5
Look, we all know about your bizarre, seething hatred for Reagan, but he didn't provoke them any more than any of his predecessors. We've been sending our military over there - provoking them - since President Jefferson decided to take on the AlQaida of his day. Back then they were called the Barbary Pirates. But they were just another Muslim Terrorist organization. This is, and always has been, a problem that is inherent in Islam. It has nothing to do with us, except that we don't tolerate their inherently violent, expansionist nature. The biggest problem over the last 40 years has been Presidents Carter and Obama for showing them weakness. I guess that Regan's firing of the PATCO air controllers would be a sore subject to bring up just now... Only if you learn to spell his name correctly... But PATCO has nothing to do with this conversation... so, why would you even mention it?...
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 24, 2014 9:39:17 GMT -5
Look, we all know about your bizarre, seething hatred for Reagan, but he didn't provoke them any more than any of his predecessors. We've been sending our military over there - provoking them - since President Jefferson decided to take on the AlQaida of his day. Back then they were called the Barbary Pirates. But they were just another Muslim Terrorist organization. This is, and always has been, a problem that is inherent in Islam. It has nothing to do with us, except that we don't tolerate their inherently violent, expansionist nature. The biggest problem over the last 40 years has been Presidents Carter and Obama for showing them weakness. I guess that Regan's firing of the PATCO air controllers would be a sore subject to bring up just now... *nods* I'm guessing that's the root of aboutwell's blindness.
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 24, 2014 9:40:31 GMT -5
If I was a jid, and your advanced age isn't the reason you don't know these things, why are you so astonishingly ignorant of history? Including the history you say you lived? Sorry for those typos... I was in a hurry to take my grands to school... I corrected it... I do like to be right... And two things I do know for a fact about history... I was in Washington in the early 70's... and you were still pissing in your pants at the time... Those two facts seem to be the ONLY thing you know about history.
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 9:49:43 GMT -5
I guess that Regan's firing of the PATCO air controllers would be a sore subject to bring up just now... *nods* I'm guessing that's the root of aboutwell's blindness. Sorry to burst your bubble... but I knew Reagan long before PATCO... while you were still wetting your pants...
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Post by aboutwell on Oct 24, 2014 9:52:12 GMT -5
linkWell now we have our own Islamic Terrorist attack against the police in NYC. I wonder how our resident apologists will attempt to cat cover up the mess. "Crazies" will always be with us... and this was one of them...
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Post by rocketwolf on Oct 24, 2014 10:40:48 GMT -5
*nods* I'm guessing that's the root of aboutwell's blindness. Sorry to burst your bubble... but I knew Reagan long before PATCO... while you were still wetting your pants... You seem to have a thing for urine, is that why you come here and piss on us then try to tell us its raining?
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Post by howarewegoingtopay on Oct 24, 2014 10:55:23 GMT -5
linkSeems we are way behind the ball on terrorist attacks, and attempted attacks against our military on our own soil. Malkin lists quite a few attacks/foiled plots that I don't recall hearing about.
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Post by middleoftheroad on Oct 24, 2014 11:15:41 GMT -5
aw writes
You could not be more wrong, aw. Recognizing and enforcing the limits of a nation’s maritime boundaries is critical to freedom of the seas. What limits would you have the world recognize aw? A hundred miles, a thousand? Should Gibraltar collect on every vessel that enters or leaves the Mediterranean? Perhaps Gibraltar and Morocco should just duke it out. Consider what might happen if the US were to declare the Bering Strait within the US maritime zone, or Venezuela to declare a 200 mile exclusion zone. The territorial claim on 12 miles is a recognized value on which states depend; Libya unilaterally changed that value and did so in a way may have impacted east and west bound traffic in the Med, as well as access to Sicily. What you incorrectly identify as a provocation was a legitimate and appropriate use of military power in defense of international law and US maritime interests.
This statement is incorrect, and I know you reference another poster’s position here, but an overseas embassy is not simply “considered” the soil of the nation occupying that space; it is the soil of the nation occupying that space. The host nation cannot enter that territory without violating law. And the whole purpose of an embassy is to establish and maintain connections between the two nations.
I have to tell you, my friend, you are so far off on these answers, I’m wondering if you are baiting for some future repost.
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