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Post by magnaestback on Jul 29, 2014 16:47:33 GMT -5
Medicare and Medicaid are not the same program, redleg. Medicaid is for low income people, Medicare is for retired people. It is Medicaid that low income Obamacare subscribers go into (133% of Fed poverty level or lower, I believe). As you work, you "prepay" your Medicare premiums. Medicaid is an entitlement. True, medicare automatically kicks in at 65 even if you have one or two other insurances and you have to pay for it even if you DON'T want it.
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Post by aboutwell on Jul 29, 2014 18:37:15 GMT -5
"Opinions" don't usually "prove" anything... and just "who" is the American people?... Here are some opinions on Obamacare: From the general public.From doctors.Do opinions polls matter? Well, we’re always told that the only polls that matter are those that occur in November. But Americans did not get to vote on Obamacare and those who did didn’t know what they were voting for. And if you believe that perception is reality then the public’s perception that Obamacare is a failure – as reflected in the many polls on the subject – means Obamacare is a failure. Perception is not reality... it's only someone's reality... and opinions are not reality either... if they were, they wouldn't be opinions... they'd be facts... General opinion polls aren't worth much... if anything... and doctors aren't for anything that means they will get or have to accept less $$$...
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Post by rentedmule on Jul 30, 2014 5:44:45 GMT -5
Medicare and Medicaid are not the same program, redleg. Medicaid is for low income people, Medicare is for retired people. It is Medicaid that low income Obamacare subscribers go into (133% of Fed poverty level or lower, I believe). As you work, you "prepay" your Medicare premiums. Medicaid is an entitlement. This is difficult to parse EY! Yes, Medicare and Medicaid Are different programs (agreed). Medicare claims that the citizen "prepays" your "premium" and thus is an insurance program. Is that accurate? Or does the producer pay as they in order for current retirees to receive government help with their health costs which they believe represents their "premiums" realized? And we pretend to believe that this system is an insurance program? The payroll tax does not come close to covering a retirees health care costs, so must be funded from "other sources" such as the general fund or the selling of debt. But yes, we do feel that Medicare is a legitimate "business deal" and not a product of the welfare state. And that is the beauty of contemporary American political folk - they pretend to respect our dignity. The Medicaid and ACA confusion is there because that was intended! The signups (enrollments) for Medicaid were included as enrollment for the ACA. If the central government presents it as a whole why should I dispute? The point was to "sell" Medicaid not as a welfare entitlement but as a grown up insurance program provided by a generous Administration. It worked. The ACA enrolled millions! I still fail to see the difference between a Mediaid recipient or an ACA recipient whose "premium" is paid with a subsidy. Someone, somewhere must be covering the COST. The point here seems to be that it is important to remove the stigma and shame and allow people to retain their dignity. Which is the essential foundation for any successful and sustainable welfare state.
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Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 8:42:24 GMT -5
Medicare and Medicaid are not the same program, redleg. Medicaid is for low income people, Medicare is for retired people. It is Medicaid that low income Obamacare subscribers go into (133% of Fed poverty level or lower, I believe). As you work, you "prepay" your Medicare premiums. Medicaid is an entitlement. I intended to say "Medicaid". I just mistyped.
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Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 8:44:20 GMT -5
Here are some opinions on Obamacare: From the general public.From doctors.Do opinions polls matter? Well, we’re always told that the only polls that matter are those that occur in November. But Americans did not get to vote on Obamacare and those who did didn’t know what they were voting for. And if you believe that perception is reality then the public’s perception that Obamacare is a failure – as reflected in the many polls on the subject – means Obamacare is a failure. Perception is not reality... it's only someone's reality... and opinions are not reality either... if they were, they wouldn't be opinions... they'd be facts... General opinion polls aren't worth much... if anything... and doctors aren't for anything that means they will get or have to accept less $$$... It's not the government's business what doctors are paid. And given their output to get a license,why should they accept less?
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Post by kashmir on Jul 30, 2014 9:49:55 GMT -5
Perception is not reality... it's only someone's reality... and opinions are not reality either... if they were, they wouldn't be opinions... they'd be facts... General opinion polls aren't worth much... if anything... and doctors aren't for anything that means they will get or have to accept less $$$... It's not the government's business what doctors are paid. And given their output to get a license,why should they accept less? So salaries should be related to tuition costs??? Where do all those kids getting out of college sign up??
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Post by aboutwell on Jul 30, 2014 11:23:15 GMT -5
Perception is not reality... it's only someone's reality... and opinions are not reality either... if they were, they wouldn't be opinions... they'd be facts... General opinion polls aren't worth much... if anything... and doctors aren't for anything that means they will get or have to accept less $$$... It's not the government's business what doctors are paid. And given their output to get a license,why should they accept less? It's called "competition"... if a doctor doesn't want to take Medicaid... or Medicare... or even Blue Cross/Blue Shield... that's their business... My wife had a test run a couple of weeks ago that cost over $6G... the insurance would only pay a little over $4G because that was what the deemed "reasonable and customary"... the doctor took it... had she been on Medicaid or Medicare, it would have paid even less... like I said, it's up to the doctor to accept the competition and get the patients... or let them go elsewhere... If the government can provide the same level of service at a lower cost... I'm all for it... I'm not a doctor... If they don't like their job... like you say about a non-union worker... they can go find a job somewhere else...
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Post by Moses on Jul 30, 2014 11:44:23 GMT -5
The right is sure putting a lot of collateral of it failing.
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Post by vosa on Jul 30, 2014 12:01:09 GMT -5
Here are some opinions on Obamacare: From the general public.From doctors.Do opinions polls matter? Well, we’re always told that the only polls that matter are those that occur in November. But Americans did not get to vote on Obamacare and those who did didn’t know what they were voting for. And if you believe that perception is reality then the public’s perception that Obamacare is a failure – as reflected in the many polls on the subject – means Obamacare is a failure. Perception is not reality... it's only someone's reality... and opinions are not reality either... if they were, they wouldn't be opinions... they'd be facts... General opinion polls aren't worth much... if anything... and doctors aren't for anything that means they will get or have to accept less $$$... If enough “someones” have the same perception of Obamacare then by default Obamacare is a failure. And would you support anything that means you will get or have to accept less $$$? It's not the government's business what doctors are paid. And given their output to get a license,why should they accept less? So salaries should be related to tuition costs??? Where do all those kids getting out of college sign up?? Fortunately most people understand that “output”, in the context in which Redleg used it, does not mean only money. It means time, effort, sacrifice, emotional investment. Of course people who are all about the Benjamins don’t see it that way.
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Post by aboutwell on Jul 30, 2014 12:20:08 GMT -5
Perception is not reality... it's only someone's reality... and opinions are not reality either... if they were, they wouldn't be opinions... they'd be facts... General opinion polls aren't worth much... if anything... and doctors aren't for anything that means they will get or have to accept less $$$... If enough “someones” have the same perception of Obamacare then by default Obamacare is a failure. And would you support anything that means you will get or have to accept less $$$? That's not exactly how "default" works... unless there are NONE left that see it the other way... only then would it be by "default"... a failure... And just because one doesn't accept something just because it means less $$$ to them, doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do... so yes, there are some things I'd support even if it meant a little less in it for me... I'm not greedy...
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jul 30, 2014 13:26:09 GMT -5
This is difficult to parse EY! Yes, Medicare and Medicaid Are different programs (agreed). Medicare claims that the citizen "prepays" your "premium" and thus is an insurance program. Is that accurate? Or does the producer pay as they in order for current retirees to receive government help with their health costs which they believe represents their "premiums" realized? Now you're asking whether it is a legalized Ponzi scheme like Social Security, and I can't answer that question. What I offered is the official position. And we pretend to believe that this system is an insurance program? The payroll tax does not come close to covering a retirees health care costs, so must be funded from "other sources" such as the general fund or the selling of debt. But yes, we do feel that Medicare is a legitimate "business deal" and not a product of the welfare state. And that is the beauty of contemporary American political folk - they pretend to respect our dignity. And this is an actuarial question. I am no actuary, so I can't say for sure how this works. My guess is that as people live longer they will have to tax them more heavily, reduce the services offered, or find a way to make healthcare cost less. All are unlikely to work, so politicians with dither and pass the problem on, and eventually the system will collapse as Social Security inevitably must.
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Post by vosa on Jul 30, 2014 13:43:43 GMT -5
If enough “someones” have the same perception of Obamacare then by default Obamacare is a failure. And would you support anything that means you will get or have to accept less $$$? That's not exactly how "default" works... unless there are NONE left that see it the other way... only then would it be by "default"... a failure...
And just because one doesn't accept something just because it means less $$$ to them, doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do... so yes, there are some things I'd support even if it meant a little less in it for me... I'm not greedy... No exactly. Full Definition of DEFAULT 1: failure to do something required by duty or law : neglect 2archaic : fault 3: failure to pay financial debts 4a : failure to appear at the required time in a legal proceeding b : failure to compete in or to finish an appointed contest 5a : a selection made usually automatically or without active consideration due to lack of a viable alternativeb : a selection automatically used by a computer program in the absence of a choice made by the user So what is the viably alternative to a perception that Obamacare is a failure?
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Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 19:35:31 GMT -5
It's not the government's business what doctors are paid. And given their output to get a license,why should they accept less? So salaries should be related to tuition costs??? Where do all those kids getting out of college sign up?? Nope, salaries should have nothing to do with government. Period. The Feds have no authority to determine what docs get paid, or anyone else.
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Post by kashmir on Jul 30, 2014 19:48:31 GMT -5
So salaries should be related to tuition costs??? Where do all those kids getting out of college sign up?? Nope, salaries should have nothing to do with government. Period. The Feds have no authority to determine what docs get paid, or anyone else. Good job with that reading comprehension redleg.
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Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 19:59:46 GMT -5
Nope, salaries should have nothing to do with government. Period. The Feds have no authority to determine what docs get paid, or anyone else. Good job with that reading comprehension redleg. Hmmm, we were discussing the government cutting what the doctors would be paid. Sorry you couldn't keep up.
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Post by kashmir on Jul 30, 2014 20:03:46 GMT -5
Good job with that reading comprehension redleg. Hmmm, we were discussing the government cutting what the doctors would be paid. Sorry you couldn't keep up. Read it again Ace.
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Post by redleg on Jul 30, 2014 20:07:54 GMT -5
Hmmm, we were discussing the government cutting what the doctors would be paid. Sorry you couldn't keep up. Read it again Ace. Did you read either of the links?
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Post by kashmir on Jul 30, 2014 20:12:52 GMT -5
Did you read either of the links? I said nothing about governments setting pay scales, I posted because you wrote because docs accumulate ginormous tuition debt that docs shouldn't accept less. Now read my post. .
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Post by aboutwell on Jul 30, 2014 20:58:51 GMT -5
That's not exactly how "default" works... unless there are NONE left that see it the other way... only then would it be by "default"... a failure...
And just because one doesn't accept something just because it means less $$$ to them, doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do... so yes, there are some things I'd support even if it meant a little less in it for me... I'm not greedy... No exactly. Full Definition of DEFAULT 1: failure to do something required by duty or law : neglect 2archaic : fault 3: failure to pay financial debts 4a : failure to appear at the required time in a legal proceeding b : failure to compete in or to finish an appointed contest 5a : a selection made usually automatically or without active consideration due to lack of a viable alternativeb : a selection automatically used by a computer program in the absence of a choice made by the user So what is the viably alternative to a perception that Obamacare is a failure? I'll go with this one... and one is all that's needed... "by default in the absence of opposition"And there is opposition to the thought that the ACA is a failure...
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Post by redleg on Aug 1, 2014 9:10:18 GMT -5
No exactly. Full Definition of DEFAULT 1: failure to do something required by duty or law : neglect 2archaic : fault 3: failure to pay financial debts 4a : failure to appear at the required time in a legal proceeding b : failure to compete in or to finish an appointed contest 5a : a selection made usually automatically or without active consideration due to lack of a viable alternativeb : a selection automatically used by a computer program in the absence of a choice made by the user So what is the viably alternative to a perception that Obamacare is a failure? I'll go with this one... and one is all that's needed... "by default in the absence of opposition"And there is opposition to the thought that the ACA is a failure... Mainly from those that have staked their lives on it succeeding, like the Wicked Witch of the West, Dingy Harry, and The Puppet. Those that have to actually live under it, not so much.
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Post by aboutwell on Aug 1, 2014 11:07:09 GMT -5
I'll go with this one... and one is all that's needed... "by default in the absence of opposition"And there is opposition to the thought that the ACA is a failure... Mainly from those that have staked their lives on it succeeding, like the Wicked Witch of the West, Dingy Harry, and The Puppet. Those that have to actually live under it, not so much. But it has not effected me... and I think it is and will be working for a long time... Truth is... Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama's careers are coming to an end... and they are set for the remainder of their lives... and none of them stake their lives on the Affordable Healthcare Act...
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Post by Moses on Aug 1, 2014 12:16:02 GMT -5
Mainly from those that have staked their lives on it succeeding, like the Wicked Witch of the West, Dingy Harry, and The Puppet. Those that have to actually live under it, not so much. But it has not effected me... and I think it is and will be working for a long time... Truth is... Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama's careers are coming to an end... and they are set for the remainder of their lives... and none of them stake their lives on the Affordable Healthcare Act... I like the way you can interpret those posts
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Post by redleg on Aug 2, 2014 9:09:01 GMT -5
Mainly from those that have staked their lives on it succeeding, like the Wicked Witch of the West, Dingy Harry, and The Puppet. Those that have to actually live under it, not so much. But it has not effected me... and I think it is and will be working for a long time... Truth is... Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama's careers are coming to an end... and they are set for the remainder of their lives... and none of them stake their lives on the Affordable Healthcare Act... That's because unions, after pushing to get it forced on the rest of us, bought a special "exemption", so they don't have to suffer the consequences of their own decisions.
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Post by kashmir on Aug 2, 2014 10:09:45 GMT -5
But it has not effected me... and I think it is and will be working for a long time... Truth is... Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama's careers are coming to an end... and they are set for the remainder of their lives... and none of them stake their lives on the Affordable Healthcare Act... That's because unions, after pushing to get it forced on the rest of us, bought a special "exemption", so they don't have to suffer the consequences of their own decisions. Do you have any back up for that statement? Of course you don't.
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Post by redleg on Aug 2, 2014 10:22:11 GMT -5
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