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Post by Ranger John on Jan 4, 2015 21:44:28 GMT -5
Huckabee is too much a religious extremist to do more than fracture the party. The GOP did itself a real disservice, politically, when it got in bed with those folks. However well-meaning most of them might be, they do not represent mainstream America and will not help the party capture the crucial moderates. And there simply aren't enough Ranger John/redleg type conservatives in the country to get a president elected. Wow. Way to disconnect from reality EY. I only seem like a religious conservative to you because of how extreme a lot of your views are. I want NOTHING to do with Huckabee. Precisely because he is going to turn people off with his in-your-face religion. The problem is, a majority of Americans ARE religious. Whomever the GOP runs is going to have to have SOME values that appeal to the majority. Huckabee is the wrong pick. But a hard-core atheist, or a Wendy Davis type who is rigidly pro-no-questions-asked-ever-late-term-abortion isn't going to do it either. It's likely going to have to be a Christian... but an understated one that doesn't preen about their faith.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 5, 2015 9:32:21 GMT -5
"Religion" has practically destroyed the church here in the U.S... we don't need a "religious" individual to run for president... we need a man or woman with some good moral values and enough intelligence to use them... (but the last one we had was run out of the WH on a rail)... Huckabee is a snake oil salesman and a tool of the religious right and the FRC... but then so is Ben Carson and a couple of other Republicans...
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Post by redleg on Jan 5, 2015 10:45:40 GMT -5
Well, I could have added Davis... she doesn't have much national recognition... but Pelosi and Reid would be viable were they both not too old and looking at retirement... they're not "funnies"... Pretty much the entire rest of the country begs to differ with you that Pelosi and Reid could ever be viable candidates, even if they weren't too old. Pelosi has the IQ of a turnip, and Reid is the definition of 'bitter old white man.' Plus, he loses fights with "exercise equipment".
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 5, 2015 10:48:15 GMT -5
Pretty much the entire rest of the country begs to differ with you that Pelosi and Reid could ever be viable candidates, even if they weren't too old. Pelosi has the IQ of a turnip, and Reid is the definition of 'bitter old white man.' Plus, he loses fights with "exercise equipment". Yes... and "W" almost chokes to death on a pretzel...
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Post by redleg on Jan 5, 2015 10:49:14 GMT -5
Huckabee is too much a religious extremist to do more than fracture the party. The GOP did itself a real disservice, politically, when it got in bed with those folks. However well-meaning most of them might be, they do not represent mainstream America and will not help the party capture the crucial moderates. And there simply aren't enough Ranger John/redleg type conservatives in the country to get a president elected. I beg to differ. Name a single Pub winner in Nov that didn't, at least, give lip service to being Christian. And Tea Party candidates won in most of the races they ran, despite the RINOs doing their best to destroy them.
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Post by redleg on Jan 5, 2015 10:50:36 GMT -5
Plus, he loses fights with "exercise equipment". Yes... and "W" almost chokes to death on a pretzel... But he hasn't done it twice. Dingy Harry has.
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Post by redleg on Jan 5, 2015 10:51:29 GMT -5
"Religion" has practically destroyed the church here in the U.S... we don't need a "religious" individual to run for president... we need a man or woman with some good moral values and enough intelligence to use them... (but the last one we had was run out of the WH on a rail)... Huckabee is a snake oil salesman and a tool of the religious right and the FRC... but then so is Ben Carson and a couple of other Republicans... Which categorically excludes any and all Democrats, and most RINOs like Boehner and McConnell.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 5, 2015 11:24:56 GMT -5
I beg to differ. Name a single Pub winner in Nov that didn't, at least, give lip service to being Christian. And Tea Party candidates won in most of the races they ran, despite the RINOs doing their best to destroy them. Lip service is a lot different that being perceived as far right. See the story of Rick Santorum. But be careful googling his name lest you learn what the people he scorned turned it into. I take it you think an arch-conservative religious winger like Huckabee has a chance with the mainstream of the country? What will be your opinion should he fracture the party and give us four more years of liberal government?
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Post by aponderer on Jan 5, 2015 12:51:54 GMT -5
"Religion" has practically destroyed the church here in the U.S... we don't need a "religious" individual to run for president... we need a man or woman with some good moral values and enough intelligence to use them... (but the last one we had was run out of the WH on a rail)... Huckabee is a snake oil salesman and a tool of the religious right and the FRC... but then so is Ben Carson and a couple of other Republicans... Why do you think Ben Carson is a snake oil salesman? Do you regard all conservatives as snake oil salesmen? Al Gore is a snake oil salesman, and Ben Carson, fortunately, is no Al Gore.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 5, 2015 13:02:30 GMT -5
"Religion" has practically destroyed the church here in the U.S... we don't need a "religious" individual to run for president... we need a man or woman with some good moral values and enough intelligence to use them... (but the last one we had was run out of the WH on a rail)... Huckabee is a snake oil salesman and a tool of the religious right and the FRC... but then so is Ben Carson and a couple of other Republicans... Why do you think Ben Carson is a snake oil salesman? Do you regard all conservatives as snake oil salesmen? Al Gore is a snake oil salesman, and Ben Carson, fortunately, is no Al Gore. Both are tools of the religious right... Gore certainly wasn't one of those... And no, I don't consider all conservatives to be snake oil salesmen... just a number of them... Santorum, who has been mentioned earlier here in a post, is one of them too...
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 5, 2015 15:12:33 GMT -5
Both are tools of the religious right... Gore certainly wasn't one of those... No, Gore is a tool of the religious left. Their religion is different but no less demanding in the requirement that one adhere to dogma. Look at "vegans" or "gluten avoiders" or even "climate change believers". Now ask them to produce the facts that support their opinion. Many cannot do so. That makes what they believe a religion. Although with his giant mansion and its huge carbon footprint Gore may actually qualify as an apostate.
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Post by aponderer on Jan 5, 2015 17:58:21 GMT -5
Why do you think Ben Carson is a snake oil salesman? Do you regard all conservatives as snake oil salesmen? Al Gore is a snake oil salesman, and Ben Carson, fortunately, is no Al Gore. Both are tools of the religious right... Gore certainly wasn't one of those... And no, I don't consider all conservatives to be snake oil salesmen... just a number of them... Santorum, who has been mentioned earlier here in a post, is one of them too... A.D., you posted "Huckabee is a snake oil salesman and a tool of the religious right and the FRC... but then so is Ben Carson and a couple of other Republicans..." I'm sure you know, as an astute logician, that a phrase containing the conjunction and is true if and only if all parts of the conjunction are true. Because you admit that Ben Carson is not a snake oil salesman (i.e. the implication that Ben Carson is a snake oil salesman is not true), then the part of your statement which claims "but so is Ben Carson" is logically false as shown by the truth table below:
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 5, 2015 17:59:17 GMT -5
Like I said, Gore isn't a tool of the "religious right"... religious left, maybe... but I'd personally rather than be on that side than the other... of course I'm not on either...
You don't see fanatical Islamists protesting for wind and solar energy... you see 'em beheading innocent people...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 5, 2015 18:05:16 GMT -5
Both are tools of the religious right... Gore certainly wasn't one of those... And no, I don't consider all conservatives to be snake oil salesmen... just a number of them... Santorum, who has been mentioned earlier here in a post, is one of them too... A.D., you posted "Huckabee is a snake oil salesman and a tool of the religious right and the FRC... but then so is Ben Carson and a couple of other Republicans..." I'm sure you know, as an astute logician, that a phrase containing the conjunction and is true if and only if all parts of the conjunction are true. Because you admit that Ben Carson is not a snake oil salesman (i.e. the implication that Ben Carson is a snake oil salesman is not true), then the part of your statement which claims "but so is Ben Carson" is logically false as shown by the truth table below:
And as one who is in a constant pursuit of the truth... as Limbaugh says he is... you know I want you to tell me where I said Ben Carson was NOT a snake oil salesman as well as Huckabee... Your table, Sir... doesn't show sh!!t...
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Post by aponderer on Jan 5, 2015 19:17:27 GMT -5
A.D., you posted "Huckabee is a snake oil salesman and a tool of the religious right and the FRC... but then so is Ben Carson and a couple of other Republicans..." I'm sure you know, as an astute logician, that a phrase containing the conjunction and is true if and only if all parts of the conjunction are true. Because you admit that Ben Carson is not a snake oil salesman (i.e. the implication that Ben Carson is a snake oil salesman is not true), then the part of your statement which claims "but so is Ben Carson" is logically false as shown by the truth table below:
And as one who is in a constant pursuit of the truth... as Limbaugh says he is... you know I want you to tell me where I said Ben Carson was NOT a snake oil salesman as well as Huckabee... Your table, Sir... doesn't show sh!!t... So you are calling Ben Carson a snake oil salesman in addition to being a tool of the religious right? BTW, that truth table is correct for the conjunction when p can take on the values of T or F, and q can take on the values of T or F.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 5, 2015 20:17:49 GMT -5
That IS what I said...
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Post by Ranger John on Jan 5, 2015 20:23:59 GMT -5
Why do you think Ben Carson is a snake oil salesman? Do you regard all conservatives as snake oil salesmen? Al Gore is a snake oil salesman, and Ben Carson, fortunately, is no Al Gore. Both are tools of the religious right... Gore certainly wasn't one of those... And no, I don't consider all conservatives to be snake oil salesmen... just a number of them... Santorum, who has been mentioned earlier here in a post, is one of them too... No, Gore is a tool of the cranks on the religious left. Or perhaps more accurately, as the high priest of the Fundamentalist First Church of the Environment, Gore's followers are his tools.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 5, 2015 20:41:25 GMT -5
Like I said... that IS what I said too...
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Post by aponderer on Jan 6, 2015 2:18:14 GMT -5
OK, I figured it out: if you don't agree with someones opinions (someone who is the public eye), you label that person a snake oil salesman, and if you don't agree with someone (also in the public eye) whose opinion is to the right, you label that person a tool of the religious right. Pretty clever: a way to kill one bird with two ad hominems...
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 6, 2015 2:56:09 GMT -5
OK, I figured it out: if you don't agree with someones opinions, you label that person a snake oil salesman, and if you don't agree with someone whose opinion is to the right, you label that person a tool of the religious right. Pretty clever: a way to kill one bird with two ad hominems... No, there are a number of people who's opinions I don't agree with... and don't consider them anywhere near what I call a "snake oil salesman"... talked with one of them tonight... very good friend for over 50 years... (female)... and why would anyone label a person from the right, with whom they disagree, a tool of the religious right?... I sure don't... while some do, not all righties use religion as a crutch, or leg up... some of 'em actually live it... Were I you... I'd stop "figuring"... you're coming up with some wrong numbers... -------------------------------------------------- From an earlier conversation: Me: "I'd really hate to learn that you were a Malkin fan... please... say it ain't so"...
Her: "Well let's put it this way I just don't like Obamacare
But I might add I don't follow anyone I just believe in what I believe lol does that make sense"Me: "Makes perfect sense to me"... No snake oil salesman... or tool of the religious right...
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Post by aponderer on Jan 6, 2015 8:01:39 GMT -5
OK, I figured it out: if you don't agree with someones opinions, you label that person a snake oil salesman, and if you don't agree with someone whose opinion is to the right, you label that person a tool of the religious right. Pretty clever: a way to kill one bird with two ad hominems... No, there are a number of people who's opinions I don't agree with... and don't consider them anywhere near what I call a "snake oil salesman"... talked with one of them tonight... very good friend for over 50 years... (female)... and why would anyone label a person from the right, with whom they disagree, a tool of the religious right?... I sure don't... while some do, not all righties use religion as a crutch, or leg up... some of 'em actually live it... Were I you... I'd stop "figuring"... you're coming up with some wrong numbers... -------------------------------------------------- From an earlier conversation: Me: "I'd really hate to learn that you were a Malkin fan... please... say it ain't so"...
Her: "Well let's put it this way I just don't like Obamacare
But I might add I don't follow anyone I just believe in what I believe lol does that make sense"Me: "Makes perfect sense to me"... No snake oil salesman... or tool of the religious right... A.D., I wasn't talking about one of your neighbors or acquaintances--as this thread's about someone potentially running for President, I was talking about someone who is at least in the public eye. I've edited my earlier post to make that clear. And getting back to Ben Carson, why do you think he's a snake oil salesman? Please be specific.
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Post by aboutwell on Jan 6, 2015 8:29:51 GMT -5
Some people who are "in the public eye" would also fit into this category... I just thought of this particular contact when you said what you did, without being specific, and I recalled the very recent conversation... of course, this woman could very well be "in the public eye" as far as anyone knows...
As for Carson, I don't want to get in a specific conversation with regard to what I like or don't like about him... it would serve no useful purpose... and he's not running yet... let's just let it suffice to say that he is supposed to have been a good, possibly a very good, neurosurgeon, but now we're supposed to think that, because of his comments, he's a good politician we could support if he ran for President... largely because of his supposedly... (and I'm NOT questioning them)... high moral values...
NAP TIME...
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Post by redleg on Jan 6, 2015 10:15:32 GMT -5
I beg to differ. Name a single Pub winner in Nov that didn't, at least, give lip service to being Christian. And Tea Party candidates won in most of the races they ran, despite the RINOs doing their best to destroy them. Lip service is a lot different that being perceived as far right. See the story of Rick Santorum. But be careful googling his name lest you learn what the people he scorned turned it into. I take it you think an arch-conservative religious winger like Huckabee has a chance with the mainstream of the country? What will be your opinion should he fracture the party and give us four more years of liberal government? Huckabee? Not in this life. But someone like Gohmert, or Lee, or Cruz, absolutely. Just because the LR media constantly whines about the "far right wing", and how they are "out of the main stream", nearly every conservative that ran AS a conservative won. People are tired of the whining, recriminations about actually succeeding on your own, and demands that everyone but themselves "pay your fair share" coming out of the slaves, and their owners. Most people realize that, without government getting in every tiny aspect of their lives, they can do much better for themselves.
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Post by redleg on Jan 6, 2015 10:18:27 GMT -5
Like I said, Gore isn't a tool of the "religious right"... religious left, maybe... but I'd personally rather than be on that side than the other... of course I'm not on either... You don't see fanatical Islamists protesting for wind and solar energy... you see 'em beheading innocent people... Which makes them Leftists. It's the Left that can't abide opposing lines of thought, because the Left can't defend a single tenet of any of their nonsense demands. Opposition simply highlights the absurdity of Leftism, so can't be allowed. That's why Muslims simply kill anyone that doesn't tow THEIR line, just like Leftists. Except that, in the civilized world, the beheadings are metaphorical.
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Post by aponderer on Jan 6, 2015 11:01:55 GMT -5
Some people who are "in the public eye" would also fit into this category... I just thought of this particular contact when you said what you did, without being specific, and I recalled the very recent conversation... of course, this woman could very well be "in the public eye" as far as anyone knows... As for Carson, I don't want to get in a specific conversation with regard to what I like or don't like about him... it would serve no useful purpose... and he's not running yet... let's just let it suffice to say that he is supposed to have been a good, possibly a very good, neurosurgeon, but now we're supposed to think that, because of his comments, he's a good politician we could support if he ran for President... largely because of his supposedly... (and I'm NOT questioning them)... high moral values...
NAP TIME... You called him a snake oil salesman, therefore I think the ball's in your court to back up your statement. If he really is a snake oil salesman, I'd like to know it, but I can't be convinced just because you claim he is... I'd rather we have a President with high moral values and no experience than the one we have now with low moral values (big time liar and disregard for the U.S. Constitution) and essentially no experience when elected. However, before you jump to conclusions, in RJ's poll none of those votes for Ben Carson is my vote.
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